Minnesota’s plan to replace the St. Anthony Bridge will take a page from California’s expedited effort after the 1994 Northridge earthquake by incentivizing the contractors. They can earn an extra $27 million if they can complete the replacement by December 2008 — and given the economic impact of the bridge’s collapse, that may be a bargain:
In its push to replace the I-35W bridge by December 2008, the state on Thursday offered contractors up to $27 million in incentives if they finish the job early.
The team of contractors that will build the 10-lane bridge is expected to be announced three weeks from today, the Minnesota Department of Transportation said in issuing its official request for proposals on Thursday.
The cost of the bridge, which will be built strong enough to carry light-rail trains, is estimated at $220 million to $270 million. The incentives are budgeted into the project and can be paid from the $250 million in federal emergency funds allocated for bridge replacement.
Right now, MnDOT estimates that the lack of a bridge for I-35W into Minneapolis costs drivers $400,000 per day. They base that estimate on pre-collapse traffic levels and the rerouting of traffic through detours. That may overestimate the impact a bit in one sense, since at least a few travelers have started home officing more often, which actually saves money However, the lack of these people in downtown areas means secondary businesses, such as restaurants servicing lunchtime traffic, will suffer serious loss of business — so the overall impact may be even larger.
At $400K as a standard, it doesn’t take long to add up to the $27 million — just 67.5 days. If the contractors can deliver a worthy bridge two months earlier than normal, it’s paid for itself. The incentives will prompt the firms to keep working around the clock, which means good jobs and extra pay for the workers. As long as safety and quality remain high, it represents a win for everyone.
California has had no complaints from their expedited work, and the experiment there caused many of us to wonder why the state doesn’t run all of its construction projects in a similar manner. Minnesotans may have the opportunity to ask the same question.
Yeah, incentives work. Look at our current crop of Congressmen — incentivized to write onerous laws for the rest of us by exempting themselves and to use the public treasury to buy themselves back into office. Seriously, I’m happy the bridge will be built faster (I only hope the work is safe) and I’m glad incentives are employed rather than the alternative: threatening to send the bosses to a gulag if they fail to meet deadline. But my God, could we please do something about the US Congress? F
Right now I’m at my summer place in western Canada where there’s such a massive economic boom going on that the place is practically an experiment in uncontrolled capitalism. Heady stuff for a conservative, indeed! It’s like living inside an Ayn Rand novel. I expect to run into John Gault every time I turn a corner.
You don’t get any kind of work done up here without incentives to contractors… and it appears to be working beautifully. To my mind, this area is proof that in a business sense (as in most others) rewarding people for good performance produces better results than punishing them for delays and shoddy work.
But then, it’s always been my belief that true conservatism is an innately optimistic ideology.
Please. It’s incent, not incentivize. Just as it’s orient, not orientate.
In the future on a going forward basis, please endeavorate to be avoidish of unneededish obsfucationalism causualated resultantly from excessivish syllabllation.
Please. It’s incent, not incentivize. Just as it’s orient, not orientate.
In the future on a going forward basis, please endeavorate to be avoidish of unneededish obsfucationalism causualated resultantly from excessivish syllabllation.
don’t worry about the safety. they’ll have so many inspectors on that job that all they’ll have to do is make them stand out in the middle and that can be their test weight.
C
don’t worry about the safety. they’ll have so many inspectors on that job that all they’ll have to do is make them stand out in the middle and that can be their test weight.
C
Please. It’s incent, not incentivize. Just as it’s orient, not orientate.
In the future on a going forward basis, please endeavorate to be avoidish of unneededish obsfucationalism causualated resultantly from excessivish syllabllation.
When doing a cost-benefit analysis to affirm a decision, it is best if the costs are less than then benefits.
By your own numbers, $27 million in costs is greater than the benefits.
First, there are less than 67.5 total days in two months. December, 2008 and January 2009 have 62 days between them for a projected benefit of less the $25 million.
Second, unless the $400,000/day includes weekends and holidays, there are far fewer than 67.5 days where the projected benefit accrues. Assuming the incentive is paid for completion by Dec. 1, 2008, they next two months have only 40 or 41 working days. In that case the benefit is about $16.4 million.
Best case, on a cost-benefit basis, this incentive costs more than its worth.
Just don’t use anyone from Boston’s Big Boondoggle, er, Dig.
Well, politicians can boondoggle almost anything.
California, after it’s 1994 Northridge quake is also an example, if you turn the pages back in history; in how a powerful political power manages to lose clout.
Because the fissures aren’t apparent in 1994.
What was apparent, however, was the financial impact! So, yes, that’s a motivator.
And, yes, “paying more” if the job’s done on time; or in political speak “hurried up” … you get to see what disasters CAN DO.
It did it, again, when the Twin Towers fell on 9/11.
The Pentagon? Do remember that hit involved hitting a bulding with Donald Rumsfeld IN IT. He took no crap from anyone. And, he had perfected the art of the STOVE PIPE.
What’s that?
The politician who signs the checks; meaning “the guy on top” … knew the whole organization. Knew who had to be “tickled.” Or force fed. To get a job done. And, the “stove pipe” was his idea. In other words, inside the political bullshit factory you stick down a tube. And, only go to those who can deliver. While a lot of crap can’t quite be flushed down, either.
As to the I-35W, I hope people begin to realize that the contractor that was up there, had no clue as to the weight of the crap he had brought up; in preparation for a whole job that was gonna spread out from end-to-end. ON THE BRIDGE! This idiot treated the bridge like the company yard.
IF asshats like that get hired, again, good luck to ya. Because “on time” to them is only when things fall apart.
Sure, the eyes of Minneapolis/St.Paul, for sure, are on the elected turkeys.
And, you still have a big hole where the bridge used to be.
People can make a difference! 9/11 showed that the in-fighting between all the city agencies dropped to zero, when men at the pile worked together; and tossed out the union bosses. Doesn’t happen all that often.
And, the stinkers, in a snit, went over to the “memorial foundation,” where you still have a big hole. And, two firemen just lost their lives, when empty-building #7 erupted in fire.
You could learn from this, of course. Or not. As is your pleasure.
But Mayor Bloomberg discovered he couldn’t buy a spot on the presidential nomination stage. Since nobody wants to look at this rich bastard. But he’s at fault, just the same. In a city “owned” by the goons. Where buildings can fall down, and monuments can be delivered to the people,that are just disgusting to look at.
On the plus side? You’re not holding a “contest.” That’s when politicians get busy, behind the screen, to screw things up.
To those who only read my last sentence, this is it: The bridge collapse was caused by the tonnage of material the idiots dragged onto the bridge, so they wouldn’t have to go back and forth to the “yard.” They were thinking? Less trips. (Drudge pointed this out, by the way. And, as I’ve said. When he hits the nail on the head, his aim’s good.)
The efficient solution is to hire Halliburton to build a quality bridge and watch the Lunatic Left run amok, then go berserk, then collapse in an apoplectic fit.
whoa – what happened? sorry!
A new bridge and light-rail? How pretentious! (Pretentiousiving?)
If Minnesota were more progressive it would only be making provision for bicycles, as has the State of Oregon.
Before a single-penny is spent, thinking needs reorientation. Not just orienting.
“To those who only read my last sentence, this is it: The bridge collapse was caused by the tonnage of material the idiots dragged onto the bridge, so they wouldn’t have to go back and forth to the “yard.””
An amount of weight estimated to be around 575,000 lbs. Did you know a semi can carry a gross weight of 80,000? This amounts to less than 8 fully loaded semi’s worth of weight, more than that could be sitting on the bridge during an average rush hour backup.
“To those who only read my last sentence, this is it: The bridge collapse was caused by the tonnage of material the idiots dragged onto the bridge, so they wouldn’t have to go back and forth to the “yard.””
An amount of weight estimated to be around 575,000 lbs. Did you know a semi can carry a gross weight of 80,000? This amounts to less than 8 fully loaded semi’s worth of weight, more than that could be sitting on the bridge during an average rush hour backup.
Come visit Texas!
Incentives for faster/better infrastructure work are the norm here.
Why is the Federal Government footing the bill for this?
Because it’s a federal interstate highway. I’ve made that point several times.
I recommend that Minneapolis take the advice offered by Tom Skerritt, who played the Mayor of Seattle in the movie Singles, when he said: “I’ve been burned by this train business before. My answer is…no.”
Oh, Viking 01, I again commend you for your genius.
Your posts tickle me pink.
And, ya know what? Halliburton would do all that you said, PLUS, come in on budget!
Oh, yes, baba-phooey, you just ADDED WEIGHT to the analysis Drudge mentioned on his radio show. The contactors had brought TOO MUCH PRODUCT to the bridge, so they wouldn’t have to make trips back and forth. And, this weight wasn’t covering the whole expanse, either. As it would be if it was shoveled into place as men “laid down a new topper” on the highway.
And, you got another thing right. The bridge went down during RUSH HOUR.
So, there ya go. Heavy “semi’s” rumbling across. And, just like the last straw that broke the camel’s back, BINGO. The bridge broke.
Captain Ed, I’m not sure, but I think it was during Eisenhower’s administration that the INTERSTATE developed such strong teeth for the Federal government. (It put mom & pop’s, who used to thrive along the old Route #66 out of business.) Because you could enter the INTERSTATE and go from one end to the other. Letting the Feds DICTATE. Including traffic speeds of 55 miles-per-hour.
The only thing “local” about the damage to the I-35W is “local.” And, trying to figure out all the layers; is probably WHY the contractors doing “their job” didn’t have real inspectors coming by. That happened to have been missing.
Most of the engineering information that this “event” produced, came after the fact. Because the Internet gave OOMPH to the delivery of this story. Again, you saw so much, because people, today, with cell phones, can get information out on the Internet, faster than we ever got news, before.
It amazes me no end that the lamestream; like those mom & pop operators who saw the traffic along Route #66 stop dead; forcing them out of business … is still an operative model, when Big Tidal Waves of Change hits your industry.
Since you’ve traveled that bridge, how are people handling their ways around it? And, what happens ahead, when the bridge is still not there, and the weather turns cold and awful?
That was the advice myself and other California posters left here when the bridge went down. You will not believe how fast things can get done. On the recent overpass melt down in the SF bay area they paid a bonus for everyday it came under.
As work began on replacing the I-580 connector, Caltrans officials and others expressed confidence that the newly signed-on contractor would make quick work of the job.
“Given that this is a job that has incentives, every hour counts,” said Bijan Sartipi, director of Caltrans’ Bay Area region.
If C.C. Myers finishes 25 days ahead of the June 27 deadline, it will collect a maximum $5 million bonus. The contractor will earn $200,000 for every day it finishes early, and be penalized $200,000 a day for each day it’s late.
The company got the same daily incentive for rebuilding the earthquake-damaged Santa Monica freeway in Los Angeles in 1994, picking up a $14.8 million bonus for finishing the much larger project in 66 days.
Carol Herman:
You are way off base in your reasoning. First of all, although the bridge did go down during rush hour, several traffic lanes were closed, lowering the vehicular weight significantly.
Second of all, the estimated 575,000 pounds of material was spread out along the span in several piles. You would have to close down all lanes (or at least all but two) to make a 575,000 pound (287 ton) pile of anything. Such a pile would’ve been *ahem* rather obvious and nobody would be scratching their heads today over the cause of the collapse if such a pile ever existed.
Third of all, a major factor in bridge design is traffic speed. The strain caused by the dynamic loading of an 80,000 pound tractor-trailer crossing a span at 65 mph far exceeds a static loading of an 80,000 pound tractor-trailer at rest. Or an 80,000 pound tractor-trailer creeping along at 10 mph. Ask any bridge engineer.
Yet when did the collapse occur? During rush hour, when traffic on the bridge was at a crawl and the stockpiles weren’t moving at all. And because of the lane closures caused by construction, total weight (vehicular weight plus stockpile weight) was well below the weight limit of the bridge–at least according to previous CQ entries.
This is why I believe physics 101 and 201 should be a prerequisite for any college degree. Especially journalism.
The thing that really rubs me wrong on this “Incentive” deal is that all of the regulations my various employers have had to deal with in normal times seem to have been thrown overboard.
Before the new bridge can be built, a comprehensive EIS (Environmental Impact Survey) needs to be completed.
To start, there’s Cultural Resource Management, meaning archaeologists looking for buried aboriginal villages and cemeteries in the expanded footprint for the new bridge (they exist on the flood plains of major rivers in almost uninterrupted chains). The sites take a lot of time to find and excavate.
And then there are the bugs & bunnies folks who regularly shut down construction because of the discovery of a new sub-species of the endangered three toe red eyed newt.
Next comes the wetlands. Are any going to be disturbed? Are they going to be replaced? If so, how and when?
And how about a noise abatement study? An air pollution study? How about all of the other studies that are required for new construction today that weren’t required 40 years ago?
Environmentally caring Minnesotans need answers to these vital questions in order to fully evaluate BushCo.’s request for a shiny new bridge with his name on it.
Garrison Keillor told me so.
Well, Tinian, Surely, you’re joking.
There’s no way there’s gonna be a rise in academics, pushing around completion of the bridge because of buried aboriginal, or virginal burial sites. Ain’t gonna happen.
And, yes. I took Physic 101 in college. LOVED IT! But it’s really for non-majors.
Also, I didn’t come up with the “weight theory.” I said I heard it on Drudge. And, this occurred AFTER the bridge went down. And, people, all over, were talking about it. Drudge said “he wouldn’t be surprised if blame falls on the construction site where the bridge was undergoing road re-surfacing.
I had also read that the haphazard ways bridges are “tested” falls right into the big hole dug by politicians. WHere they scamper about with money and regulations; oftentimes, missing the point of creating any value.
Everything in the world that gets built, eventually suffers from aging infrastructure. So, there are now lots of Interstate roads, getting a whole new inspection brought into focus.
Doesn’t mean the “Brooklyn Bridge is about to fall down.” But decades ago,when I road the subways, it was marvelous to be in the first car, looking out the window. It felt like the bridge shook like crazy.
Then, working in the Empire State Building, heck, that building SCREAMED in the winds. The noise steal makes are terrifying. Till someone explains its not ghosts.
I’m also guessing the Mississippi River is bottomless. Because in New York City, which is an Island (surrounded by water), there are tunnels under the Hudson. How come not here? Dunno.
But “traffic” if you think about it, grew during the 20th Century. Heck, in the beginning, all you had were horses. (And, some engineer who said “no one would go underground to use subways. And, you couldn’t fit more than 3 million people on the Island, because you needed a million horses for transportation.) Some information just gets old.
I have no idea why the I-35W came down. But of all the possibilities, wear and tear isn’t my bet.
By the way, once the repairs are made, what about those trailers? Why is it “normal” to think these huge trucks can travel wherever they want? I live in a town that if you drove a “semi” onto any of our streets, the cops would ask the driver to stop. And, give him a ticket. There are weight restrictions.
Just like at tunnel entrances; if your truck’s too high, the top is gonna et sheered off.
What’s it gonna take to accommodate this I do not know. But I do know that on the George Washington Bridge, the requirements to drive on top aren’t as strict as the requirements to cross on “Martha.” That’s the seond portion, built below the top roadway. Get on the wrong one, and you won’t be able to get off in Englewood Cliffs, either. You’ll end up in Fort Lee.
The last bridge that got built in New York, that I remember, is the Verazzano. It was built to connect Staten Island to Brooklyn. WHere, before you had to use ferries. And, the reason the bridge, at first, was built? Fears that enemy planes, attacking New York would bomb the bridge and put the Hudson out of commission.
See? More information than you’d get, packed into memories. Not just Physics 101.
And, you don’t need a college degree to have an opinion. You’d be surprised. But a lot of people trust Drudge.
Carol Herman. Don’t include me in your fantastical screeds. Your too much weight theory is bunk, I don’t care what that putz Drudge has to say, he likes the sound of his own voice and gets tiresome with his wacky theories.
Tinian’s right on with his weight explanation.
I say drop all the impact studies completely, they are a waste of time for something that’s going to be built regardless.
Two thoughts: Since the new bridge is being built where the old bridge was located, I don’t see why new impact studies will be needed, and apparently neither do the authorities since they are proposing having this done by December of 08.
As for incentives, they work. We used them in Indianapolis when we did repair on I-65/I-70. They called it the HyperFix and the incentives ran by the hour and were worth all of it. The city arranged busses to run from outlying communities into town. The bus routes were very popular. We are doing another project on I-70 using incentives and they are working around the clock.
skydaddy, what dictionary are you using? Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate does not list “incent” at all. The verb form it gives for “incentive” is “incentivize.”
Rob:
Since the new bridge will be larger it will have a larger impact area. It may sound stupid, but if this was a normal bridge replacement, I’m sure all of those impact studies would be required. I spent 10 years working in the cultural/environmental resource business and I’ve seen it happen before.
They’re cutting an amazing amount of red tape on this project, which I think is great (my plea for the studies was made tongue-in-cheek). I wish the incentive method should become the model for most if not all public works projects in the future.