Phony Outrage

Bloggers jumped all over a comment made by Rush Limbaugh on Tuesday, in which he supposedly called military personnel who oppose the war in Iraq “phony soldiers.” Immediately, voices on the Left rushed to defend the honor of men and women in the military, accusing Limbaugh of insulting their integrity. In fact, the same blogs who had no problem with MoveOn’s ad accusing General David Petraeus of potentially traitorous conduct reacted with outrage to Rush’s comment.
However, unlike the “Betray Us” ad, Rush’ critics took the comment out of context. Let’s take a look at the transcript from the broadcast (via Worldwide Standard). Rush made it clear what he meant by phony:

RUSH: It’s not possible intellectually to follow these people.
CALLER: No, it’s not. And what’s really funny is they never talk to real soldiers. They pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and spout to the media.
RUSH: The phony soldiers.
CALLER: Phony soldiers. If you talk to any real soldier and they’re proud to serve, they want to be over in Iraq, they understand their sacrifice and they’re willing to sacrifice for the country.

That was the sequence that generated the controversy. However, at the end of the call, Rush explained exactly what he meant by “phony soldiers”:

Here is a Morning Update that we did recently, talking about fake soldiers. This is a story of who the left props up as heroes. They have their celebrities and one of them was Army Ranger Jesse Macbeth. Now, he was a “corporal.” I say in quotes. Twenty-three years old. What made Jesse Macbeth a hero to the anti-war crowd wasn’t his Purple Heart; it wasn’t his being affiliated with post-traumatic stress disorder from tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. No. What made Jesse Macbeth, Army Ranger, a hero to the left was his courage, in their view, off the battlefield, without regard to consequences. He told the world the abuses he had witnessed in Iraq, American soldiers killing unarmed civilians, hundreds of men, women, even children. In one gruesome account, translated into Arabic and spread widely across the Internet, Army Ranger Jesse Macbeth describes the horrors this way: “We would burn their bodies. We would hang their bodies from the rafters in the mosque.”
Now, recently, Jesse Macbeth, poster boy for the anti-war left, had his day in court. And you know what? He was sentenced to five months in jail and three years probation for falsifying a Department of Veterans Affairs claim and his Army discharge record. He was in the Army. Jesse Macbeth was in the Army, folks, briefly. Forty-four days before he washed out of boot camp. Jesse Macbeth isn’t an Army Ranger, never was. He isn’t a corporal, never was. He never won the Purple Heart, and he was never in combat to witness the horrors he claimed to have seen. You probably haven’t even heard about this. And, if you have, you haven’t heard much about it. This doesn’t fit the narrative and the template in the Drive-By Media and the Democrat Party as to who is a genuine war hero. Don’t look for any retractions, by the way. Not from the anti-war left, the anti-military Drive-By Media, or the Arabic websites that spread Jesse Macbeth’s lies about our troops, because the truth for the left is fiction that serves their purpose. They have to lie about such atrocities because they can’t find any that fit the template of the way they see the US military. In other words, for the American anti-war left, the greatest inconvenience they face is the truth.

Now, I will say that Rush should have mentioned that some real soldiers oppose the surge strategy in Iraq, and some oppose the deployment altogether. However, the media seems to fixate on Jesse MacBeths and Scott Beauchamps, who served but lied about their experiences, and then never give the refutations anything close to the same coverage they gave the lies. Jesse MacBeth had served as the Left’s poster boy for several months, but his guilty plea has not made much of a splash in the Leftosphere — certainly not the fanfare his fantasies received.
That’s the context of Rush’s remarks. That’s the context that his critics seem to ignore. Even if Rush had said what they claimed he said, they also managed to avoid asking why they felt so outraged over it when most of them defended MoveOn’s slanderous accusations of treason against an American Army officer. It’s on a par with last week’s howler about how George Bush didn’t know Nelson Mandela was still alive.
Phony, indeed.

187 thoughts on “Phony Outrage”

  1. Liberal freaks! I listened to Rush Limbaugh Tuesday… I heard precisely what he said and I knew precisely what he meant. If they claim otherwise, they are freaking liars! Every one in the media and/or Democrat party that continues to perpetrate this bogus story is equally a LIAR! This tells me all I need to know about Democrats and what they’ll do to grapple for political power and that’s why I’ll never vote for one again!

  2. Wasn’t there some candidate that also lied about his service and faked throwing his ill earned medals over a fence.

  3. No doubt many of the people making a stink out of this are those spreading the myth that President Bush actually said that Nelson Mandela was dead. It’s amazing what you can do when you completely cut off context.

  4. They sure love to attack Rush. Good grief!
    All the left can do is lie, and slander good people. All the troops that I write to love Rush and know what he stands for and they know how much Rush appreciates them.
    I listen to every one of Rush’s shows and I heard what he said and he has never even come close to saying anything like these lefties are saying.
    God bless Rush! And the fun will be how Rush will chew them up and spit them out and show the world once again what jerks and fools these liars are. Go for it Rushbo!

  5. And this is the state of ‘information’ in the world today. What a pathetic mess. I had to research this event fully before I could determine the TRUTH despite the usual furor on the net. And the ONLY reason I researched it is because I am hostile to the agents spreading the ‘news’. Imagine my reaction to this if I TRUSTED the poltroons. This is sad and potentially dangerous. Reality should be reality no matter who reports it. Right/ Left should make no difference.
    EVERYONE is guilty of ‘distortion’ in reporting on what the ‘others’ have said, but this is a typical tempest in a teapot. Again.
    I don’t listen to what Limbaugh says. He is not a big favorite of mine, but he clearly did not mean to say that ALL members of the Military who were critical of the Iraq War were ‘phony soldiers’.
    Just the clear phonies.
    But you have got to be careful when you start travelling down this particular road. He was not careful enough and it would have been so easy to prevent this from blowing up.
    Now, he should probably just man up and state that he phrased it poorly and did not mean to cast aspersions on those who disagree with his stance on the War. Just on the liars and fakes that tend to take center stage.
    No need to apologise. Just fully explain and clarify ,and throw in some observations on how things become distorted by people with agendas.
    Silence here is not golden.

  6. Oh baloney.
    the contortions you Rush Apologists have to go through to defend the draft-dodging chickenhawk is truly astounding. I hope you all stretched first to avoid painful cramps.
    The fact is that is EXACTLY what Rush was doing…caling soldiers who don’t agree with Bush “Phony”. It’s right there in the transcripts. Spin all you want, but like Bill O’rally, everyone can read it for themselves. Making pained excuses only makes it worse.
    Why Republicans hate our troops so much, I ‘ll never know. Maybe its’ jealousy that so many of them dodged the draft while real men and women went off to sacrifice.
    God bless and keep our troops…… far away from Republican Chicken Hawks.

  7. The LIES continue…
    And it often seems like the Democrats are getting away with it.
    Remember when Pelosi repeatedly said al Qaeda was not in Iraq?
    Or how about Hillary saying she did not vote to authorize the use of force in Iraq?
    The lies of the Democrat Party have grown to absurd proportions since the 1990s.
    They even ran an ad with a famous actor, telling the audience that the Republican Candidate is opposed to medical advancements for future cures.
    And YET, some Conservatives, even after the ugly undermining of the USA in the GWOT, still have to ‘hold their nose’ when they go vote?
    If we held the same outrage as we did for the immigration reform attempts, we would have reduced the Democrat Party to a serious minority, and maybe we could return to some form of honest discourse.

  8. So much whining. Everyone who says something stupid claims it is taken out of context. That’s the first line of defense. The real shame is that people listen to radio djs, tv personalities, hollywood stars, and musicians for political views. Kerry also said something stupid about getting stuck in Iraq. The extremes of both sides need to grow up, turn off their TVs and radios, and read. Ugh.

  9. LOLOLOLL !
    “Why Republicans hate our troops so much, I ‘ll never know. Maybe its’ jealousy that so many of them dodged the draft…”
    Bill Clinton wasn’t a Republican…
    The Liberal Denial is so vast.
    Have to wonder if TIM works for the DNC…
    Could you find out if Hillary really voted to authorize the use of force in Iraq?
    Or if Nancy knows whether al Qaeda is in Iraq?
    Is the love Murtha has for the US Armed Forces, the reason he condemned innocent Soldiers as guilty before they even had a trial?
    Murtha slanders Our Bravest is a sign of adoration and devotion?
    The reality is the Democrats are as phony as your expression, and the fake soldier Mr. Limbaugh was referencing.
    It is simply pathetic.
    Just as your comments.

  10. I just heard Rush’s explanation, during which he re-played the “controversial” comments. The only way you could arrive at the conclusion that Limbaugh’s comments were in any way offensive is to take them out of context, and to distort them. The Democrats never would do that on the floors of the House and the Senate, would they? 😉
    They’ve completely overreached again. The smear has reached the White House Press Corps. I’d say it’s time to start yanking the credentials of reporters who intentionally misstate facts in asking questions of the President.

  11. That’s the context of Rush’s remarks.
    No, that’s not the context of the remarks. That’s the back-peddle after the remarks.
    It’s pretty clear what Rush said. Made even clearer by the response from the caller and Rush’s reaction to that.
    RUSH: The phony soldiers.
    CALLER: Phony soldiers. If you talk to any real soldier and they’re proud to serve, they want to be over in Iraq, they understand their sacrifice and they’re willing to sacrifice for the country.
    RUSH: They joined to be in Iraq.
    CALLER: A lot of people.
    RUSH: You know where you’re going these days, the last four years, if you sign up. The odds are you’re going there or Afghanistan, or somewhere.
    There are countless soldiers who have returned from Iraq who question whether we should be there. See the film The Ground Truth. See the Tillman brothers.
    Rush f’d up, went back and found 1 soldier to reference. Nevermind that he said soldiers and agreed with the caller that the “real” soliders are the one’s fully behind the mission.

  12. Let me correct myself. He didn’t affirmatively agree with the caller, but he didn’t dispute it and went along with the premise.

  13. Hey timpundit:
    Brilliant satire! Keep up the good work.
    “It’s right there in the transcripts”.
    What Jean-Claude Kerry said decades ago about the military is also “right there in the transcripts”.
    “Why Republicans hate our troops so much, I ‘ll never know. Maybe its’ jealousy that so many of them dodged the draft while real men and women went off to sacrifice.”
    Just curious-are Bill and Hillary Clinton “chickenhawks” too? How about Harry Reid? None of them served in the military, either. Yet Harry Reid has claimed that the war in Iraq is “lost”. What’s his military expertise to make such a claim?
    Oh, and can I have some of what you’re smoking?

  14. Now, besides football, we get additional areas for Monday Morning quarterbacking?
    Rush benefits from contraversy. So, for starters it’s important to recognize HE HAS A MICROPHONE; and he uses it. Well.
    That there are spinning chairs in the pentagon, who once held the likes of Colin Powell? YOU BET! Did he produce bad advice? Repeatedly.
    While what Rush is really up against, now, is the affirmative action crowd, long past their heyday.
    One of the things the affirmative action crowd did not consider, is “what happens when you’re not selling your stuff, retail?”
    There’s a terrific book out there, THE LAND OF LINCOLN. That gives deep insight into how Lincoln became a legend as soon as he got shot. And, for all of our presidents, is the one most written about. This included interviews with the living of that time; collecting all sorts of stories about the man.
    When automobiles came along, Americans, 75 years later, began making pilgrimages to Lincoln sites.
    Of course, with the 1960’s, we got the “new thing.” Where the affirmative action crowd went in and “took over.” Schools. Military. Wacky academics then got to “oversee” the Lincoln sites.
    So, guess what? They tossed the patriotic dioramas. And, installed “what life was like” one hundred years ago. TOO BAD FOR THEM, people stopped driving by. People stopped going to the Lincoln Museums. And, without the traffic? The museums faced “having to change the personnel.”
    As I said, the LAND OF LINCOLN is one of these delightful, American stories.
    And, it speaks to what happens when we know the legends are there; but the affirmative action crowd mucked things over.
    Today?
    Gosh, I can’t imagine anyone putting in Hillary to race for the presidency. Because, generally, now that so many people are working in the work force; you hardly ever hear of a group of people extolling a woman boss.
    Sure. You could hold up Margaret Thatcher. But what happened to her, over there? Well, just like WInston Churchill, the Brit’s have a way of tossing away talent. For inbred aristocrats. What puzzles me? How comes the “powers” never hear from the public?
    While, here, if Hillary is, in fact, the front runner in 2008; she might as well selected Rosie O’Donnell to be her running mate.
    Yes. I have experience as a voter. I know, for instance, that in 1972, McGovern’s loss to Nixon was embarassing. But it did bring out the #2 guy in the FBI, connecting to a probably gay reporter; doing all the tricks they knew how to do, when they went trolling at 2:00 am for sex in parking garages.
    Of course, we had no internet, then.
    But from 1972, till today, the Bonkeys have not put down their Neanderthal implements.
    Which is what gives Rush a boost in his ratings.
    Most Americans know, for instance, that Wesley Clark (who was 1st in his class), got there because standards were lowered.
    Yes, there’s lots of anger on the left! The affirmative action crowd (always lacking talent), are very angry critters, now.
    But ya know what? Let them “seeth” with the muzzies. Seething, it seems, is a waste of time.

  15. It’s quite simple, really.
    For the timpundits and the like, here’s the question: Why are so many of its heroes fakes? Not just Jesse MacBeth, but also one of the early anti-war bloggers, Micah Wright.
    So, here’s the challenge:
    Find a right-wing counterpart to Jesse MacBeth and Micah Wright.
    You know, find a right-wing blogger who claims to be a soldier, sailor, airman, or Marine, who is talking up all the good that’s going on, that they’ve purportedly witnessed, and show them to be a fake.
    After all, you do agree, don’t you, that every American, whether they oppose or support the war, has a right to speak freely? So, whether you’ve served or not, you can support or oppose the war.
    But the odd thing is that it’s the Left that seems to have an awful lot of fake soldiers on their side. If you’re really so peeved about fakery, show that they exist on the conservative side.
    (You might also wanna check the bona fides of the “soldiers” like MacBeth and Wright, and their tales, like Beauchamp, btw. Just to avoid additional embarrassment.)

  16. “Just curious-are Bill and Hillary Clinton “chickenhawks” too? How about Harry Reid? None of them served in the military, either. ”
    Certainly are. They are just as big a Draft-Dodger as Rush and President Failure and Cheney and Rumsfeld. Except for Hillary who was never eligible for the draft, of course.
    Glad we can agree.

  17. “Have to wonder if TIM works for the DNC…”
    No, he doesn’t. He just entertains himself by watching blatent apologists try to squirm out excuses for Famous Drug Addict, Sidshow-Barker and Draft-Dodger, Rush Limbaugh.

  18. Talking about the past. And, connecting it to West Point, (where, as I said, an inferior Wesley Clark graduated 1st in class). The brillian Ulysses S. Grant, graduated below the middle.
    U. S. Grant, who had to master algebra, calculus and trigonometry, all on his own. Never having taken even one class; excelled in math. Yet he lost points for “dress codes violations.”
    SOmetimes, when you start to look at the Bonkeys and their name calling, it does come to mind, that Hillary (except for her closet uniform), never met a soldier she actually liked. Never served in the military. Is as incompetent for the job of president as Condi Rice currently is at State …
    Oh, and while I’m at it. FDR did a phenominal job; all through the 1930’s. Avoiding the “war” he didn’t want to be mired in; until he had to.
    And, then? He depended on General George Marshall, as his Chief of Staff, to keep Winston Churchill’s cotten-pickin hands off of our military aparatus.
    As to name calling though, the chicken shits seems to have cornered the market on chickens.
    While they do seem to be sending over “scouts.” Why? Oh, they think they’re showing us that our patriotism isn’t universal. This is a standard truth for all democracies.
    Meanwhile, putting a grill on the EDSEL that was shaped like a toilet seat; made the car an inferior purchase. While the idiots at FORD were sure they were “selling” class.
    “Class,” gets defined in many ways. And, the Edsel? Overweight for its “class.” It stood in the showroom. No sales from the public.
    Shows ya. Americans know how to pass up on crappy deals.

  19. “For the timpundits and the like, here’s the question: Why are so many of its heroes fakes? Not just Jesse MacBeth, but also one of the early anti-war bloggers, Micah Wright. ”
    Wow, thats a fair and unloaded question. Sorry, this isn’t Faux news where you get to set up strawmen and then knock them down then claim you are unbeatable.

  20. Rush just destroyed this story with a beautiful display of presenting the evidence. Hannity will follow; as will O’reilly, Inghram, and the rest of the truth seekers.
    What’s really funny about this story; Democrat Congress members actually made false statements from the floor of the house and have now been busted telling absolute lies while in session. Talk about “falling into a trap”; fools, every one of them. Media Matters is behind this package of twisted lies; Soros is behind Media Matters… Follow the money…
    Rush has (3) hours a day and a listening audience that exceeds 20 million per week. Want to fire up the Republican base; attack Rush with distortions and lies. Just wait and see how well this pack of bullshit works for your kind Shipley.

  21. Why is this such an unfair challenge, timpundit?
    There are clear examples of fake soldiers on the Left. The Left cries “Foul!” in pointing this out.
    Either that means these guys aren’t fakes (clearly not true), or there are fakes on the Right that aren’t being highlighted.
    Feel free to highlight them.
    Unless what you’re saying is that it’s not fair to point out the fakes?

  22. Time for Rush Limbaugh to sue John Kerry for willful misrepresentation / slander then demand Kerry’s SF180 (request for military records) be submitted by Kerry then enforced as part of the discovery process. If Kerry is as holy and honorable as he pretends then let’s see the proof he keeps hiding.

  23. It’s certainly fair to point out “fakes” from right left or middle. Hell, I don’t care.
    Clearly, Rush has fooled a great many people into thinking he isn’t a phoney. Or a Draft-Dodger. Or a Chicken-Hawk. Or a Drug Addict.
    What I won’t let pass unremarked is an attempt to weasel-word Rush’s Draft-Dodging out of the question as to who is “phoney” or not. Or to make lame excuses that he wans’t really calling troops opposed to this Administration, ‘phonies’.

  24. Both the left and the right are fond of using soldiers as props — they’re either patriotic secular saints fighting the Great Patriotic War, or they’re tragic figures fighting the system.
    It’s false for one side to pretend the other doesn’t do it — its an easy out, an emotional way to avoid difficult policy questions. Why talk about the war in Iraq when you can talk about how the other side holds a secret hatred for “our boys?”
    As fewer and fewer Americans, per capita, actually put on uniforms or even know someone who does, the military grows in reputation and grows venerated, even fetishized. This in turn makes it an important symbol, and often, a political football.
    Everyone can continue their cry-session about who cares more about “our warriors,” but the simple truth is that the best way a policy-maker can honor them is to make responsible decisions on war and peace. I believe now the only responsible course is to leave Iraq. Everything else — this “phony soldier” non-scandal, the “Betray Us” ad — are simply distractions.
    DU

  25. Where’s the distortion?
    What exactly was distored? Rush said was he said. It’s clear. The left puts up fake soldiers to defend their stance on the war.
    If he was referring to only this one soldier, then he’s guilty grouping many good soldiers with this one example. What are his other examples of fake soldiers the left props up?
    There’s no distortion going on here. If Rush is talking about just one soldier, then he shouldn’t have said “the left props up fake soldiers.” It’s at best a gross and incorrect generalization. And worst, he thinks soldiers who question the mission in Iraq after returning are fake soldiers.

  26. Tom Shipley said

    No, that’s not the context of the remarks. That’s the back-peddle after the remarks.

    Translation: As a leftist shill, I refuse to take Rush’s comments in their full context. I will snippet them just as my peers have done and proclaim this truth to the world.
    It’s obvious, even from the initial statement by Limbaugh, as to what he’s talking about. The left has used these horror stories from winter soldiers over and over in their attempt to (a) disparage the mission, and (b) disparage the leaders of the mission by alleging that they condone the claimed abuses.

  27. Ed’s way of dealing with Rush’s offensive statement displays some of the problems with Ed’s own brand of punditry.
    Ed has no trouble recognizing what was wrong, and outrageous, about what Rush said.
    But Ed can’t bring himself to place his emphasis where it belongs — the fact that Rush was wrong to say what he said, the obvious need for Rush to apologize to his audience and to those soldiers who he carelessly impugned. Instead, Ed decides his job is really to defend Rush and help him out with damage control.
    So we get a posting that recycles Rush’s lame attempt at day-after spin (creating a “context” for the “phony soldiers” line that never existed when he said it). And we get the same old red-herring fulminations about how leftists are all hypocrites, and so on.
    Ed should look more closely at what he is doing here. You can normally find reasons for defending the indefensible, if that’s what you want. Holding your friend accountable for his error may not satisfy your audience. It might even cost you an interview or two, or some other networking opportunity. But if you really wanted to be honest — or really wanted to serve a cause higher than your own career, or your own partisan impulses — then you would hold yourself, as well as your friends and allies, to a higher standard.

  28. Hey did anyone notice Tom Shipley with his:
    Let me correct myself. He didn’t affirmatively agree with the caller, but he didn’t dispute it and went along with the premise. did exactly the same thing Rush did. Only he wants to be able to clarify a remark and doesn’t give Rush the same courtesy.
    Sorry, Tom, no correcting yourself, no clarification your statement stands as is. NOw let me pick some words out of context to slander you futher and ignore your correction which might put your words into context.

  29. I heard the same thing from the radio yesterday, and the transcript today. It was clear to me then, as it is now.
    There have been soldiers who “sex up” their “credentials”, tell tall tales about war, and obtain recognition for things they didn’t do in every war. The book “Stolen Honor” is quite clear on that. (Oh, and John Kerry shouldn’t talk about “soldier’s honor”, or any of that matter. He has lost all credibility in this issue, IMHO)
    Yes, there ARE phony soldiers like Jesse McBeth. And I’m glad Rush called them out on it, just like other bloggers have researched other phonies out there and exposed them. I’m glad he’s not afraid to call a spade a spade, unlike the people at Media Matters, who peddle up exactly what Daddy Soros-bucks wants.
    And as for that Leftist troll: your words are shallow. They show how infantile you are. Yes: you are an infantile.

  30. The facts “truth” will come out over the next 24 hours Shipley; this will happen because some absolute fools disguised as politicians, took precious floor time to talk about Rush Limbaugh. No stopping this now; even the MSM will be cautious as to “getting this right” due to the size of Rush’s audience. CNN has already stepped in it big time, having believed the Media Matters story without doing their own investigation prior to jumping on board. Of coarse, CNN is in bed with Soros, so that is no surprise anyway.
    We’ll revisit this story in 48 hours time and see where it has gone.

  31. If Rush had said, “I would like to clarify an earlier comment of mine. When I said “fake soldiers” I had in mind people like Jesse MacBeth (with an explanation of who he is). I was not referring to the many good and honest members of the military who have questioned the mission in Iraq.”
    Then you’d have a point, JR.

  32. It is fascinating how quickly Hillary’s useful idiots have forgotten Scott Beauchamp and the New Republic which published his phoniness.

  33. Viking01; and, Elspeth Reeves no longer works at TNR.
    The left gets to fire “at will.”
    I just wonder how “big” Franklin Foer will demand his Christmas bonus to be?

  34. And as for that Leftist troll: your words are shallow. They show how infantile you are. Yes: you are an infantile.
    I don’t think I’ve had anyone use the “you’re a baby” taunt on me since the school yard days.

  35. Rush can “clarify” what he said from now until next Tuesday. But it is crystal clear that he was agreeing with the caller who was dissing not just the Jesse MacBeth’s but also those who have served and are now anti-war.
    In that sense, he owes the entire US military an apology.

  36. Another liberal driven non-story. Funny to see the libs here get shot down by logic on this thread. No way any sane person will actually thing Rushbo is slandering any troops.
    And I wonder where Rush said that “soldiers that disagree with the war are phony soldiers” comes from. Not from what he said.
    But looks like Rush is right, as he is saying on his show today. This non-story could be a ploy to make the libs forget the fact that their presidential candidates have completely played them like idiots. Pulling the troops out if they get elected? Maybe at the end of their term.

  37. Mr. Timpundit:
    Do you remember that great soldier, John Murtha, claiming that our real hero soldiers killed all those women and children in cold blood, unprovoked, in Iraq? Well, now that they have been exonerated, where are the apologies? Where is the clamor from the news media for apologies from all the other hacks in the DNC who got week upon week of air time on this story, berating our troops like they were nazis? Why has this exoneration received little or no attention from any of the MSM? I’ll tell you why- it’s easier for them to ignore it and go after Rush for some out-of-context remark that they claim show Rush to be against the troops. What a joke! Do these idiots ever listen to Rush or bother to interview the majority of service men and women and see what they think of Rush. Trying to set up a straw man shows how desperate you and the Dems really have become.

  38. Timpundit:
    You are a good example of a kos/moveon.org memebot. As I pointed out many times before Don Rumsfeld flew P-5M maritime patrol aircraft in VP-40 during the Cold War. After leaving active duty, he remained in the Naval Reserve and retired as an O-6. Your ignorance exceeds your childishness.
    Another think I want to ask you is whether I am a Chickenhawk. While President Bush was flying the dangerous F102 back home in the Texas Air National Guard I was serving aboard the submarine USS Trout. I even spent some time in the Gulf of Tonkin. The only serious injury experienced by my crew was a sailor who slipped coming down the ladder from the sail and broke several bones. On the other hand several of George Bush’s squadron mates died in mishaps. Now for the purposes of argument I will stipulate that you are right about the President’s service. Since my service was less hazardous the Bush’s I must be a Chickenhawk. Be careful how you answer!

  39. Is Mr. Shipley in his 12:41 PM post actually trying to say that Rush Limbaugh should have to clarify what he didn’t say to those who don’t listen to his program?
    (Visualize person batting imaginary flies away from his face.)

  40. Another stupid comment ..

    “I have been against the fence, I thought it’s a bad idea even when it was just a matter of discussion,” said Pelosi, D-Calif. “These are communities where you have a border going through them, they are not communities where you have a fence splitting them.”

    .. this officer of the United States of America, Speaker of the House, 3rd in line to be President, doesn’t seem to understand the idea of sovereignty.

  41. hey carol.
    chickenshit is one word not two. thats ok. only somebody with a pink id card would take issue, normally the word is spoken so quickly in conversation that you wouldn’t know. oh by the way it is a term used by both enlisted and commissioned members of the military.
    there’s a bunch of inconsistancies with this guy.
    first, 23 year old corporals are a bit strange unless they made the rank from two directions which has been known to happen.
    second, a corporal ranger is interesting as by the time they get through the ranger qualification schools they would probably qualify for e4 on time in grade, although i could be wrong.
    third, the media coverage of this is so high that i would take a second look at his service time etc. on that basis.
    now we find out that he put in a grand total of 45 days. interesting.
    can’t even make corporal in 45 days.
    there was some noise that he made out a claim to the VA for disability. if he did that based on the other stuff, well thats a “false official statement”.
    comes under the heading of “defrauding the government”. that calls for taking up a semipermanant residence at leavenworth kansas for a few years.
    sounds like another beauchamp to me.
    C

  42. Actually, Jerry, you are right.
    I shouldn’t call Bush a chickenhawk. He merely Dodged the Draft to stay out of harm’s way… while a Chickenhawk is always a Draft-Dodger, a Draft-Dodger is not always a Chicken Hawk.
    I stand corrected.
    So, no, I do not believe you are a chickenhawk, either.

  43. And I should point out too, that I do not wish to make the claim that all Republicans Hate Our Troops or are Draft-dodgers or Chickenhawks or use 9/11 and the War for political advantage. Clearly that isn’t the case.
    It’s just too bad 95% of Republicans give the other 5% a bad name.

  44. I just love these leftists who demand apologies for never doing anything wrong….how about answering a question for me, if your little troll lips can form the words….would an apology really mean a damn thing to you? Be honest, we all know that you could care less who slanders the troops (which Rush did not do and which leftists, YOU leftists, do every day), but when a republican does it you take it upon yourselves, you in fact go out of your way, to get all offended on behalf of those poor little children (your view, not mine) a.k.a. American soldiers, that you hate. Spare us your hypocritical demands for apologies that you would only use as further clubs to gain power at the expense of the best America has.

  45. Timpundit:
    Normally I would push this but you were good sport and gave a good answer I would like to compliment you. One thing though, you still need apologize to Captain Rumsfeld.

  46. So… according to the lunatic Left those who served in the Air National Guard were “dodging the draft”? That’s about as ignorant as believing those serving in the Coast Guard do so to the the avoid the dangers of Katrina rescues, dope runners and ships in distress.
    (Visualize second person batting imaginary flies away from his face.)

  47. LIMBAUGH IS A GOOSE

    First of all, I would say to my lefty friends that anyone who tries to draw some kind of equivalence with Rush Limbaugh referring to anti-war military people as “phony soldiers” and Moveon’s “Betray-us” ad is an idiot.

  48. Dear Rummy,
    Thank you for serving in your country. It doesn’t make up for the way you dishonestly led this nation into war, or excuse the decimation of our military and treasury or the series of boneheaded decisions you made that caused us to lose the occupation, creating more destruction of American and Iraqi lives…but still…thanks a lot.

  49. “those who served in the Air National Guard were “dodging the draft”?”
    Only when there was a draft going on at the same time, yes. Draft-Dodgers, or if you like politically correct newspeak = Avoided the draft.

  50. Limbaugh is an idiot and you are welcome to him.
    Imagine how successful we could have been in Viet Nam if Rush, Cheney, and the entire company of weekend warriors that make up our modern discourse had gone.
    Limbaugh and most of the right wing fools who wore “purple heart band-aids” with such high hilarity want you to believe that John Kerry who was in country and being shot at was a coward and traitor, and want you to believe that Bush the drunken rich boy who was even arrested for DUI/DWI is the real hero.
    You guys have no honor. The Declaration of independence signed by up would have been a joke. You have nothing to pledge each other but your rabies and muddled thinking.

  51. Vietnam is actually the war that scares Maliki the most.
    While Texas represents a conquest that was NOT popular shortly after we collected the prizes.
    (As I said, in old age, U.S. Grant complained that he had “fought in it.”) Though, if truth be told; as his wife, Julia,knew; U.S. Grant was cut out to be a soldier.
    ANd, men and their memories rarely reflect they youthfulness.
    Our president is perched well, to see what Maliki gets to do with the cards he has left. After squandering whole bunches of good will with his own Shia. Due to what’s being rumored is now going on in iran. And, syria.
    Heck, even Israel, is into this “silence is golden” schtick.

  52. So successful Rush Limbaugh (unlike failure Al Franken) is an idiot because he didn’t say (in context) your attempts to misquote him? Notice how quickly the moon bats have now morphed into their Bush’s fault mantra!
    Speaking of rabid (proper grammar) and muddled thinking….
    (Visualize third person batting imaginary flies away from his face.)

  53. Liberals can’t debate the issues based on facts. Thus, they rely on the tried and true methods of despots and authoritarians everywhere:
    Lie, Obfuscate, Deny, Smear, Attack, and Repress.

  54. Timpundit:
    I am truly disappointed in your response. I merely asking you to acknowledge you were wrong in your assertion that Don Rumsfeld never served. I wasn’t asking you do re-evalute your opinions of his performance as Secretary of Defense.
    Like most leftist fanatics you lack both magnaminty and humility. An honorable man would have simply admitted to error and moved on.
    As I said before your ignorance does exceed your childishness and it shows in your lack of manners.

  55. Bill O’Reily isn’t racist. He’s observant.
    Rush Limbaugh isn’t denigrating the troops, he is simply separating the wheat from the chaff.
    George Bush doesn’t even know who Nelson Mandela is, so they were taking his comment entirely the wrong way.
    Hitler loved Jews. Anyone who says otherwise clearly just has a book to sell.

  56. Just to clarify that my previous post (of 1:31 )PM refers to the 1:20 PM jerskykbeing posting.
    The Left has become like those who gave Kerry a pass yet wasted no time vilifying the Swift Boat veterans.
    And by the way, thanks Carol.

  57. Jerry,
    Sorry you feel that way. I clearly admitted I was wrong…but, what you want…a groveling to Rummy simply isn’t going to happen.
    Perhaps if Rummy apologizes for his deadly mistakes and the dishonesty in taking us into war, will make me more inclined to apologize to him.
    I suggest you accept a half a loaf, make a sammich and get off the high horse.

  58. Jesse MacBeth was hardly unique, as the leftists here are suggesting.
    You can add Ehren Watada, Josh Lansdale, and Amorita Randall to the list of phony soldiers.
    And let’s not forget Scott Beauchamp.

  59. It has been said before and we are seeing the truth of it now, that the only way a lefty can destroy a conservative is to lie about what they say.
    Lefties operate at such a low level of intellectual capacity that they think any string of words that says what they want it to mean is fair game. Their ability to follow thought is apparently so limited that the idea of thinking in sentences – much less paragraphs – is beyond their reach. Context is non-existant for these feebs. We see this demonstrated from issues like science to war to civil rights to their choice of issues to attack over.

  60. Timpundit:
    You seem to miss the point. I did take half a loaf when I complimented you on the your intial response. Did you think we had a meeting of minds?

  61. I’d say that the level of actual outrage on the left about Rush’s comments are exactly equal to the amount of actual outrage on the part of the right over Petreaus — which is to say, precious little.
    Mechanical Eye has it exactly right. Everyone needs to stop whining and fingerpointing over who is worse, and start thinking seriously about the problems we are facing in the country.

  62. The trolls and the Kos Kids on here need to really adust their medications..
    Also …..do you have any idea what a real Chickenhawk is??????? one of the most vicious of hawks!!! a hawk warrior!!!!!
    but then parroting something you heard..and if fits your template spew it out….is the way of a kool aid drinker…

  63. I’m a Gulf War Vet and I’ve been in the Navy for over 19 years now.
    The Democrat Party has stuck knife after knife in our back since this war started.
    Clowns like my appalling liar of a Senator, the absolutely worthless traitor Jim Webb (who, by the way, served in Vietnam although I’m not sure on which side), are not our friends.
    Jackasses like traitor Jack Murtha, call us murderers. Jackasses like traitor Dick “Turbin” Durbin, call us Nazis. Jackasses like trophy husband Jon Cary call us stupid. Jackasses like Nancy “Burkha” Pelosi play chambermaid whores for Islamofascist dictators. Jackasses like Diane “Mommy Warbucks” Feinstein steal money from the troops. Jackasses like the unqualified, unaccomplished Ms. “Doormat” Rodham, support the efforts of anti-American, luntatic left organizations to slander one of our senior Generals.
    The jackass traitors in the Democrat Party needs to stick a sock in their “defense of the troops”. Traitors like “Cpl” MacBeth are of their ilk, not ours – scum of the earth. And they were who Mr. Limbaugh was speaking about, not us.

  64. “It has been said before and we are seeing the truth of it now, that the only way a lefty can destroy a conservative is to lie about what they say.”
    Why is it that whenever a rightie steps in it, it’s always a Democrat’s fault?
    From Mark Foley to Vitter to Larry “widestance” Craig to Bill O’rally to Famous Comedien Rush Limbaugh, it’s always the darn democrats fault for pointing and hooting.

  65. Nodonkey…
    Careful. Some of your Righty friends here are trying to convince everyone it’s only ‘lefties’ who make insults.
    You’re screwing up their talking points.

  66. ” … Everyone needs to stop whining and fingerpointing over who is worse, and start thinking seriously about the problems we are facing in the country.”
    Ummm …. there are those of us who believe we are doing exactly this, because we genuinely feel that we are confronting 2 threats to the existence of America as we would like it to be:
    1) Islamist terrorists, an external threat
    2) Liberals, an internal threat
    Both threats are very real and very serious, and must be confronted.

  67. timpunkit,
    Rush did not step in anything. But you lefty hacks are trying to shove him a pile of your bs. Anyone who can read with at least a 4th grade comprehension level understands precisely what he said. I do know that leaves out most deemocrat voters, but so be it. Complex thinking is not what keeps you tools voting as you do. I don’t even listen to the show or like him much, but the transcript is completely clear. You lefties have been relying on lying about the troops, having posers pretend to be troops and having cynical opportunists lie about their service since Vietnam. As to your assertion of the President being a draft dodger, it only shows a complete level of ignorance of what serving in the TANG was and is. But then, you have already demonstrated that you are not really trying to argue from facts or knowledge.

  68. You don’t have to get off a horse to make a sandwich. Okay, maybe at Hillary’s boot camp so the horse won’t think he’s next.
    All Jerry was asking Timmy was for a correction of fact. Not whether or not the moon is full or if the Long Island Railroad is running on time.
    Speaking of a full moon… what is it with the lunatic (becoming Stalinist) Left whereby they must misquote those whom they fear to feel less insecure about themselves?
    Ahh feeyall thar payne. Bites lip. Frowns in a caring yet sensitive way…. snaps thong, gropes intern…

  69. TimPanda,
    “Some of your Righty friends here are trying to convince everyone it’s only ‘lefties’ who make insults.”
    Sorry, but I speak for myself.
    And I notice that in your previous posts that you’re a typical lyin’ lefty jackass as well.
    I think it’s just swell how you want to defend your precious little Democrat heroes in their attempt to lose a war for pure partisan gain.
    But we’ve got a glut of tired lunacy recently (Theresa, gaffo, dave, et al), so the whole act is wearing a bit thin.
    So how ’bout scurrying back over to your fellow pinko closet cases over there with your buddy Markos Halitosis, and stop wastin’ bandwidth?

  70. The MoveOn ad was also attacked and taken out of context. The questionmark after betrayus and the text of the ad asked the general “to not betray us” by giving an inaccurate report.
    The MoveOn “outrage” was just as phony as this.

  71. I think this is a good time to bring up Michelle Malkin’s “winter soldier syndrome” essay.
    Rush had a caller who thought he had “caught” Rush by pointing out that he said “phony soldiers” (plural). Happily, Rush could point out multiple instances of “winter soldier syndrome.” Nice trap, Rush.
    We have a “culture of treason” perpetrated by people who become outraged when you question their patriotism. Words mean different things to different people. To those participating in this culture of treason, working for America’s defeat in the Vietnam war and the Iraq war claim these are expressions of “patriotism” as they define the term. Your internationalist “patriotism” is my “treason.”
    There is one thing to oppose the war before embarking upon such a course. Congress took a vote and there was a time to vote against it at that time. There is another thing to oppose needlessly prolonging a conflict after it has been lost. But it is a completely different matter to actively work for America’s defeat in the current conflict.
    Such people are not “phony soldiers” they are traitors, but the laws about treason have made the burden of proof so high that I doubt Benedict Arnold could be convicted of treason nowadays.

  72. Can anyone translate this from rightwingnutballery to plain english? It seems the writer is trying to communicate something to me here, but forgot not everyone has the rightwad de-coder ring handy.
    “So how ’bout scurrying back over to your fellow pinko closet cases over there with your buddy Markos Halitosis, and stop wastin’ bandwidth? ”

  73. Ah, the old Jeopardy! game show excuse!!!
    It’s within the [cough] rules as long as it’s in the form of a question.
    I’d like to hear what General Petraeus has to say about that pathetic attack ad and the NY Times giving moveon.org the family discount. Just as the Left is still stinging from the 2000 election loss they’re still trying to salve their wounds from the Betray Us ad backfiring.

  74. Yep …. liberals believe that we’re so stupid that we don’t recognize their slanders, lies, smears, and hate speech if they camouflage it in “irony”, “parody”, “questions”, and “hypotheticals”.
    LOL

  75. “Rush f’d up, went back and found 1 soldier to reference. Nevermind that he said soldiers and agreed with the caller that the “real” soliders are the one’s fully behind the mission.”
    Wow. I didn’t hear him say that.
    I heard him make a statement about phony soldiers.
    Then he clarified that statement by using an example of what he meant.
    A clear example.
    The example was proof positive the guy was a TOTAL PHONY.

  76. Chicago-Sun Times ^ | May 6, 1999 | Robert Novak
    Balkan failure is Clark’s
    Who is responsible for an air offensive that is building anti-American anger across Europe without breaking the Serbian regime’s will? The blame rests heavily on Gen. Wesley Clark, the NATO supreme commander.
    After 40 days, U.S.-dominated NATO air strikes no longer even pretend to aim solely at military targets. Pentagon sources admit that the attacks on the city center of Belgrade are intended to so demoralize ordinary citizens that they force President Slobodan Milosevic to yield. That has not yet happened, but diplomats believe the grave damage done to American prestige in Central and Eastern Europe will outlive this vicious little war.
    “The problem is Wes Clark making–at least approving–the bombing decisions,” said one such diplomat, who then asked rhetorically: “How could they let a man with such a lack of judgment be [supreme allied commander of Europe]?” Through dealings with Yugoslavia that date back to 1994, Clark’s propensity for mistakes has kept him in trouble while he continued moving up the chain of command thanks to a patron in the Oval Office.
    In the last month’s American newspaper clippings, Clark emerges as the only heroic figure of a non-heroic war. Indeed, his resume is stirring: first in his class at West Point, Rhodes scholar, frequently wounded and highly decorated Vietnam combat veteran, White House fellow. He became a full general about as fast as possible in peacetime.
    But members of Congress who visited Clark at his Brussels headquarters in the early days of the attack on Yugoslavia were startled by his off-the-record comments. If the Russians are going to sail war ships into the combat zone, we should bomb them. If Milosevic is getting oil from the Hungarian pipeline, we should bomb it.
    NATO’s actual air strategy did not go that far, but increasingly, it has reflected Clark’s belligerence. Even the general’s defenders in the national security establishment cannot understand the targeting of empty government buildings in Belgrade, including Milosevic’s official residence. Civilian damage and casualties in Kosovo and elsewhere in Serbia are too widespread to be accidental.
    Sources inside the U.S. high command say this week’s disabling of Belgrade electrical power facilities was intended to destroy civilian morale. The Pentagon has announced NATO “area bombing” with “dumb” bombs carried by B-52s–clearly an anti-population tactic. In a highly limited war, Clark is using the methods of total war.
    One American diplomat with experience in the Balkans, who asked that he not be quoted by name, told me that ground forces are needed and he is appalled by the bombing of civilian targets. “It has no military significance, and it is pointless–utterly pointless,” he added. “But it has a terrible impact on us. This bombing in the heart of the Balkans is costing us.”
    That cost is viewed by State Department professionals as the product of Clark’s deaf ear when it comes to diplomacy. His classic gaffe came in 1994 when he went off to meet Ratko Mladic, the brutal Bosnian Serb commander now sought as a war criminal, at his redoubt in Banja Luka. Mladic concluded their meeting by saying how much he admired Clark’s three-star general cap. Impulsively, the American general exchanged hats with the notorious commander, who has been accused of ethnic cleansing, and even accepted Mladic’s service revolver with an engraved message.
    That escapade cost Victor Jackovich his job as U.S. ambassador to Bosnia. He was sacked partly for not exercising sufficient restraint on the mercurial Clark and for not preventing him from gallivanting off to Banja Luka. The sequel came at Belgrade a year later during the diplomacy leading to the Dayton peace conference. Milosevic, smiling broadly, humiliated Clark by returning his hat to him. That helps explain the general’s intense personal animosity for the Yugoslav president.
    Clark is the perfect model of a 1990s political four-star general. Clark’s rapid promotions after Dayton–winning his fourth star to head the Panama-based Southern Command and then the jewel of his European post–were both opposed by the Pentagon brass. But Clark’s fellow Arkansan in the White House named him anyway. The president and the general are collaborators in a failed strategy whose consequences cast a long shadow even if soon terminated by negotiation.
    Here is what John Cornyn said about the Move-On vote:
    “This amendment was an opportunity for every Senator to declare with not only their voices but also with their votes that they fully support our troops and our commanding General in Iraq,” Sen. Cornyn said today.
    “For MoveOn.org and their left-wing allies to brand General Petraeus a traitor and a liar crossed a historic line of decency. It was a despicable political attack by a radical left-wing interest group. I’m pleased that majority of the Senate, in a bipartisan vote, has repudiated it.
    We will not tolerate the patriotism and integrity of our troops and their leaders in the field being dragged down into the swamp of Washington politics.”

  77. Oh, you’re more than welcome, Viking01. Your posts are my pleasure to read!
    By the way, the other thing I’ve been noticing; is that the Internet has a marvelous way of taking the drivel presented by the left, and actually amplifying it.
    This, perhaps, is lost on those “scouts” who come here and spout their mantras and their “it’s all bush’s fault” bullshit. Bull shit can also be written as two words.
    While what’s lost?
    I guess when you’re listening to the radio, you’re really unaware of the audiences’ size. I listen to Drudge on Sundays. My ONE radio listening pleasure; and, I’d be hard put to come up with a number that fits his audience’s size.
    The radio can be that intimate!
    It was, as a matter of fact, FDR’s secret. He called his radio shows “fireside chats.” And, people, even if they lived in apartments without fireplaces; tuned in and “bought the concept.”
    This time out? This swirl in a teapot; gets the Internet treatment, because the left can’t make their charges stick.
    The same is true for Sidney Blumenthal, who, again, decides Dan Rather’s “greater truth” works for him, too.
    But it doesn’t “work” on the Internet. This leaves the left roiling in rage. Not that I care. But separate from all the “fly swatting” we have to do; there’s the reality that the left is not nice! They also don’t seem to care.
    As to their shinanigans, wherever it does show up, (because I’m not going out of my way looking for this crap), I see them here as remnants of the fly-by media. Cowards. And, chicken shitters. Fertilizer for the traffic that comes here, often. To laugh. And, to post.

  78. timpundit and other trolls:
    I actually was drafted, and the Army in their wisdom did not send me to Viet Nam. During that conflict there were several other vital national security areas, such as facing off the Soviet forces in Europe, or making intercepts of Soviet bombers as they tested our defenses over the Arctic (intercepts performed by National Guard F-102’s, among others).
    I have no problem with the fact that I was drafted and others were deferred. The draft-dodgers were the cowards who fled to Canada. I honor most highly those who served in Viet Nam and those who, like Thoreau, went to prison rather than serve.
    As a pilot, I’m aware of how little non-pilots know of how dangerous it can be to fly, even a small single engine aircraft in clear weather. Steve Fossett’s disappearance is an example. The F-102 was woefully underpowered, and the delta wing design made it tricky to fly, especially during take-off and landing. The courage and commitment it took to strap on an F-102 is amazing. I’m not sure I would have been willing to do that.
    So why not do a little research before starting with the chickenhawk chickenshit?

  79. I will say that Matt Drudge is one of the most successful gay Republicans to pioneer the internet rightwing gossip rags. Kudos to him for that.

  80. read the context and the entire ranscript. “Mike” is trying to get Limbaugh to say when the war can end. He says he used to be military and he’s a Republican, to which Limbaugh responds, “And I, by the way, used to walk on the moon.” When the next caller, who sports wood for the war, says that he’s been in the military for 14 years, Limbaugh says, “Thank you, sir.” Yep, Rush has amazing radiographic psychic powers to know which people on the other end of the phone are telling the truth about their lives.
    But Mike in Chicago doesn’t live up to Rush’s paradigm – and here’s the nutzoid right’s warning to Republicans: Rush tells Mike in Chicago, “You can’t possibly be a Republican” and that “I don’t know a single Republican or conservative, Mike, who wants to pull out of Iraq in defeat.” That’s how you know now if you’re a real Republican, according to Rush: you gotta want to kill more American soldiers and Iraqis. Oh, and apparently there’s a qualitative difference between Chuck Hagel’s withdrawal desire and Harry Reid’s.
    Phony soldiers, phony Republicans, traitorous Democrats. It’s funny, really, in a Duke Cunningham gets raped in prison kind of way, to watch the implosion of the bloviating right. Between Limbaugh’s degradation of soldiers who aren’t bloodthirsty enough for him and O’Reilly’s discovery that black pimps don’t beat their ho’s at restaurants, we’re witnessing the desperate gasping for air of a movement that was degraded from the start, but has now become about as valid as a serial rapist giving fashion tips to high school girls.

  81. Typical left of center tactics.
    Monitor someone for a perceived slip up.
    Even if there isn’t one, twist the words or the interpretation to make it seem like there is.
    Send out action memo to all the usual suspects.
    Flood the zone with the faux issue and faux outrage.
    Send commentors to other blogs to flap the faux issue.
    When proven it’s all a faux issue the left will not correct or retract.
    Mission accomplished, resources tied up and time wasted due to the faux outrage.
    Left says we suckered em again and wasted their time.
    Wash rinse repeat.

  82. timpundit,
    The secret of holes is to stop digging.
    You are so deep I am sure you think it is night time. BTW, one does not usually need a decoder ring to read plain English.

  83. Thanks for the advice, Hunter.
    But, this shovel I’m using here isn’t for dirt digging.
    I know there’s a pony in here somewhere. 😉

  84. daytrader,
    That’s about it, in a nutshell.
    And they have the gall to complain about us getting our “talking points” and “marching orders” from Karl Rove. LOL

  85. Seminar commentors don’t ever stop digging, they are doing their job of beating a dead horse and smiling all the time they do it.
    Little children saying look what I fooled them into doing.
    I have seen a lot of comment threads where the seminar commentors were proven to be bot posters.

  86. My goodness…I can feel the love! And from the party of Jesus, too!
    Thanks, people. You like me…you really…really like me!

  87. The left is enraged at the negative reaction of most Americans to the Moveon advertisement in the N.Y. Times calling Petraeus “Betray Us”. That’s evident from the speed with which they jumped on the distorted report about Limbaugh from Media Matters, a Soros front group.
    John Kerry expressed his outrage at Limbaugh’s alleged statements on the floor of the Senate. In addition to his own outrageous slanders of Vietnam veterans, Kerry never has released HIS OWN military records in their entirety, despite his repeated promises years ago to do so. Rumors have been circulating for years that Kerry was dishonorably discharged from the U.S. Navy, but that the Carter pardon permitted him to get that status changed to “honorable”. Only release of all of Kerry’s military records could put these rumors to rest (or not).
    As Shipley admits, Limbaugh did NOT agree with the caller that ALL military personnel who disagree with U.S. policy in Iraq are “phony”. He did take the opportunity to quickly change the subject to that of “phony soldiers”, meaning those who falsified slanderous reports about U.S. personnel in Iraq. He started with one example yesterday, and added others today.
    What do you think of those examples, Shipley? Are they your role models?

  88. Well, in Burma/Myanmar, the despots discovered shooting monks wasn’t enough; because the availability of cell phone technology, turned lots of ordinary folk into media posters. And, the words have been getting out.
    So, what did the police state do? It just cut phone lines.
    Bunch of idiots, too.
    Because NOW they are also without the “power.”
    Wanna make a phone call? No ringy-ding-ding attached to receivers.
    Again, the left has become fascist. It’s not even the “left” of Adlai Stevenson. Or of John F. Kennedy.
    While I find it both strange and funny that the left, here, has to “monitor” stuff just to get some attention in the world of “bandwidth.”
    Okay. So they bring their “irregulars” to us?
    That’s what I call not having a single clue on the dynamics of debate. Since Bubba dropped his pants, the left’s lost their “exposure option.”
    Going after Rush? Well, that’s like Sidney Blumental “defending” Dan Rather.
    Hardly what I’d call “persuasive.”
    Oh, by the way, the Internet is hardly the place to go looking for religious experiences! And, it ain’t “luv” that radiates towards the losers on the left.
    That we have them? What do you expect? We’re a democracy. while even RAID doesn’t kill all the roaches! They’re sucking oxygen here; because there’s less oxygen available at Koz. And, HuffPoo.

  89. Defending Rush

    You won’t find me rushing to the barricades to defend Rush Limbaugh very often. We have a very different view of the world, politics, and style (though he did use a post of mine on David Galula as background for a radio segment, and kindly linked…

  90. Timpundit says:
    “I shouldn’t call Bush a chickenhawk. He merely Dodged the Draft to stay out of harm’s way… ”
    How was flying the F-102 jet, a plane that killed several of Bush’s fellow ANG comrades, staying out of harm’s way? It was one of the most dangerous fighter jets ever built and flown. This was partly due to a design flaw that made takeoffs and landings rather tricky.
    According to the Air Force Safety Center, the lifetime Class A accident rate for the F-102 was 13.69 mishaps per 100,000 flight hours, much higher than the average for today’s combat aircraft. For example, the F-16 has an accident rate of 4.14, the F-15 is at 2.47, the F-117 at 4.07, the S-3 at 2.6, and the F-18 at 4.9. Even the Marine Corps’ AV-8B, regarded as the most dangerous aircraft in US service today, has a lifetime accident rate of only 11.44 mishaps per 100,000 flight hours. The F-102 claimed the lives of many pilots, including a number stationed at Ellington during Bush’s tenure. Of the 875 F-102A production models that entered service, 259 were lost in accidents that killed 70 Air Force and ANG pilots.
    A total of 15 F-102 fighters were lost in Vietnam. Three were shot down by anti-aircraft or small arms fire, one was lost in air-to-air combat with a MiG-21, four were destroyed on the ground during Viet Cong mortar attacks, and the remainder succumbed to accidents.
    By the way, Bush wasn’t sent to Vietnam to fly because the military phased the F-102 out of the Vietnam Theater between 1969 and 1972. He volunteered to go, but didn’t have enough flight hours to qualify-he had 300 hours but needed 500.

  91. Drudge was instrumental in revealing Newsweak’s Monica cover up for Slick’s lies and employee hopping. That is why the Lefty moon bats hate him so.
    The only thing I can add to sasha’s excellent Wes Clark writeup is how careful the press is to not ask Gen. Clark who was commander at Ft. Hood when Field Marshall Janet Reno asked him to send the tanks into Waco.
    And thanks to Jack Okie and fellow veterans who answered the nation’s call and defended our freedoms. Taking risks for country wherever stationed that most in the activist press could never comprehend.
    Two things the Dan Rathers (said to be a boot camp washout) of the world will never grasp about the military they attack:
    1.) Training is often as dangerous as being in combat because it must be realistic preparation for it. Equipment is designed for purpose not comfort. These are not weapons sent back to the Hollyweird props department after the actors have returned to their trailers to wash off their make up and snort a few lines.
    2.) George W. Bush was an interceptor pilot of a tough to fly aircraft specifically designed for Cold War nuclear bomber deterrence, one way, straight line, at highest speed and not fighter engagement as was tactics in Vietnam. If called into action and engaged the USSR the F-102 pilots would likely not have had the luxury of a return to base. Like the 8th Air Force in WW II Europe attrition was an expected part of the mission. Had George W. Bush sought to bail out of training to avoid such danger he perhaps could have, but didn’t. George W. Bush did not manage to have his induction physical delayed by 10 months, arrange anti-war protests in London or write an insulting letter to draft officer Lt. Col. Holmes. Bush also did not choose to meet with North Vietnam representatives in Paris like John Kerry did.
    Honor, duty, country. All those things the moveon dupes resent and oppose while taking their freedom for granted.

  92. Just got through checking the usual 12 to 15 blogs on the left and sure enough they are going with the same faux outrage with the spun story.
    The posts at each blog are almost interchangeable.
    Also check the right side and there are about an equal number of blogs fisking the issue.
    Most of the right side blogs have seminar commentors in their midst.
    QED

  93. Bush wasn’t sent to Vietnam because when the Vietnam war was going on, he joined the NG.
    In the 60s it was common knowledge to dodge the draft one need only get some inside help to joing the NG. Roughly 3% of NG actually went to Vietnam.
    Of course, that was back in the day when the NG wasn’t used and abused by the President to make up for enlistment shorcomings in trying to wage a war poorly planned and on the cheap… like Bush is doing now.
    Now it’s legal, but certainly it was Dodging the Draft to stay out of the war. A deadly war. One that would have put him in harm’ way.
    So use whatever politically correct terminology you want, but Bush dodged the draft.

  94. Anyone who has served in the military, especially in a combat zone like Iraq or Afghanistan, have earned the right to be treated with respect and dignity by all of us.
    Their honest opinions about the war – whether they support or oppose it – should be heard by all of us here at home with an open mind, regardless of our existing views and biases on the subject.
    However, we should ALWAYS keep this in mind:
    The experiences of these troops is most often limited to those that they’ve had personally or those that have been related to them by their peers in theater, and thus their opinions often lack the greater context and understanding of the larger, strategic picture.
    Thus, we may find some troops who believe that their sacrifices were futile and needless in taking Hill #So-and-so, or engaging some insurgents in a no-name little village in BFE Province. They may feel that those “stupid brass” at HQ wasted “good men’s lives” in vain, for nothing more than another notch in their 201 files or OER’s.
    What they won’t know is that there was probably a damn good reason for the actions they fought in, despite the little benefit they can see on the surface in their limited area of operations.
    They won’t know or fully appreciate the fact that their actions tied up or diverted enemy resources that might have been used in another area, where the major tactical or strategic target lay. They won’t know that their actions helped to attrit the enemy’s troops and resources, so that a later victory was assured. They won’t fully appreciate the impact that those actions have had in changing the civilian population’s attitudes away from supporting the enemy to recognizing that they have a better future in a freer, more open society. Etc.
    Things must be kept in context, with an emphasis on the larger, more macroscopic perspective.

  95. That’s how you know now if you’re a real Republican, according to Rush: you gotta want to kill more American soldiers and Iraqis.
    I see that our colleges have moved on from creative writing to creative reading.

  96. “Okay. So they bring their “irregulars” to us?”
    I know this may be shocking to the Amen Corner here, but no one “sent” me. And it isn’t the first time (nor the last) that I will contribute here.
    I suppose you’d all be more comfortable simply ^5 ing each other and agreeing and slapping each other on the back.
    I didn’t know that this is a place for just righties to massage each others jerking knees, and congratulate each other on the newest insult to lefties, and too timid to the idea of actual opposition.
    But, this is a rightwing blog…and I am ashamed I didn’t forsee it.

  97. Daytrader:
    Just a question out of curiosity. What percentage of silly Timmy’s comments is he simply cutting from blogs over there and pasting here?
    If we’re to award Timmy the Joe Biden Award for Lifted Phraseology it would be nice to have some numerics before nominating him.

  98. “Just a question out of curiosity. What percentage of silly Timmy’s comments is he simply cutting from blogs over there and pasting here?”
    0% that I am aware of? Why? have you found my comments to be stolen from somewhere?
    Or were you just itching to get an insult before school lets out?

  99. viking01
    It is very easy to do macros to post content on as many blogs as you can open in your browser.
    Not rocket science at all.
    The key item about tim’s comments is to review them and see how much he responded to the issue of Capt Ed’s fisking of the issue and how many comments just danced around it without actually providing counter points.
    Note well when comments stray from the original post content to other issues not pertaining to the post at hand just to keep it alive.

  100. TimPundit
    So use whatever politically correct terminology you want, but Bush dodged the draft.
    He dodged the draft – by enlisting?
    Now it’s legal, but certainly it was Dodging the Draft to stay out of the war. A deadly war. One that would have put him in harm’ way.
    He was in harms way. Flying F-102’s was infinitely more dangerous than most military occupatons. Al Gore, for instance, served in the military as a journalist. Bush could certainly have gotten a much safer job in the full time military if he had wanted to. He could have joined the Navy, for example.
    But we don’t expect you trolls to display any concern with the facts.

  101. “The key item about tim’s comments is to review them and see how much he responded to the issue of Capt Ed’s fisking of the issue and how many comments just danced around it without actually providing counter points.”
    I see.
    So, the key here is to see how much ‘drift’ there is from the original article…and anyone who participated in said ‘drift’ is…what again?
    A spammer? have I got that right?

  102. At the time that Bush enlisted in the ANG’s 147th Fighter Interceptor Group, it was involved in combat operations in Vietnam. If Bush joined it in an attempt to escape combat then he was as stupid as the moonbats think he is.

  103. I have never seen so many people afraid to have a little opposition to thier views.
    I mean look at this…people are actually spending time trying to figure out whether I am a serial spammer or an “irregular” participant, and my persoanl favorite…a “scout”. Even to the extent someone wants a web search to check out possible plagerism. man, when the refrain that Republicans are always trying to distract from this real issues comes about, one need only look here to see it happening live.
    You make Freeperville look positively sane.
    But, never fear. I’m away for the weekend but look forward to your clever insults and conspiracy theories next week. I know, I know…no need to thank me.

  104. timpundit,
    I’m curious about this “chickenhawk” stuff. Should only soldiers and/or former soldiers be allowed to become President? Should only those of us who serve or have served have the authority to send folks off to war?
    Isn’t that kinda the formula for the military dictatorship that the Founders wanted to avoid?
    Or do you really want people like me in charge when the going gets tough, and you who have not served get no voice?
    I thought that went against the principle of “governed by the consent of the governed.”

  105. How to spin a faux issue Standard Operating Procedure.
    Soros funded Media Matters finds the issue item or left side commentors or left side bloggers feed the item to Media Matters.
    Media Matters evaluates the tip and if deemed exploitable, feeds the context to the info war room at the Soros indirectly funded Fenton Communications.
    Fenton Communications evaluates the tip and builds the response plan.
    Based on the classification of the plan, Fenton Communications picks which distributions lists to send get sent the bullet points to be enacted.
    Thus we now have what passes for independent commentary by left side blogs, the MSM and what has now become the Democrat talking points.
    When you see the phrase Democrat talking point, you can easily substitute Fenton talking point.
    If deemed necessary, per the plan, one of the distribution lists that get the action memo are the willing group of seminar commentors.
    This is only aided by independent non affiliated left leaning commentors working toward the same end.
    Fenton Communications has a client list that willingly provides talking heads for the MSM as either expert sources or commentors used on all the video press roundtables and news casts to provide the approved spin.
    The pattern is well know and easily analyzed.
    After all it is really questionable how all the various points who are going with the faux story were to somehow have all independently discovered the same faux issue withing less than an hour and already formed and communicated their faux response.
    Watch learn and simply exercise pattern recognition.

  106. A spammer? have I got that right?
    I would use a less charitable term, but you have displayed the standard technique of left wing trolls – that is, you toss out a wide assortment of unsubstantiated charges and then move on to making new ones when the first ones are challenged.

  107. >”Or were you just itching to get an insult before school lets out?”
    >
    What’s the point of going to recess now that the Lefties have abolished all the contact sports?
    No. No. I categorically refuse to call you a pinhead out of respect for decorum and general diplomacy.
    I too was wondering how Timmy was equating enlisting with dodging the draft… hence my inquiry of whether his bizarre line of argument was outsourced.

  108. Timpundit wrote:
    Of course, that was back in the day when the NG wasn’t used and abused by the President to make up for enlistment shorcomings in trying to wage a war poorly planned and on the cheap… like Bush is doing now.
    Ok, so Bush is using and abusing the NG now, but are you then suggesting that those in the NG now are trying to dodge the draft, but can’t because Bush is using them in the conflict?
    Also, it should be pointed out of course that many/most democrats say that Iraq is a diversion from the real war on terror, namely in afghanistan, and yet I don’t see an influx of liberals joining the army to fight there? Are they, and you, timjim, chickenhawks for wanting to fight the “real” war on terror, or is that like everything else a talking point that you don’t really beleive in but use like a demagogic cudgel.

  109. Perhaps if Rummy apologizes for his deadly mistakes and the dishonesty in taking us into war, will make me more inclined to apologize to him.
    “Rummy” did not take us to war. If you had a passing familiarity with the structure of the American government you would know that he lacks that power. Congress took us to war. Look it up.
    Don’t they teach basic civics anymore?

  110. actually that should say:
    are you suggesting the NG now are trying to dodge service and avoid conflicts (as there currenltly is no draft) by joinging the NG and not the armed services, , but can’t because Bush is using them in the conflict?

  111. Chickenhawk is just a strawman of choice.
    Take the total number of military veterans and active duty combined and see what a small percentage of the total population it is.
    The vast majority of MSM, bloggers, commentors, pundits, congress critters , letter to the editor writers fall into the other than veteran category.
    It is only a faux sword to be used to try to attack the credibility of the desired target and put them on the defense by trying to claim the target has no moral authority to draw a conclusion.
    But they willingly spout the trusted chickenhawks from their side of the issue with no qualms at all and ignore all efforts that point out their own weakness of argument.
    And so it goes.

  112. Here’s what John McCain has to say about Limbaugh’s “phony soldier” remark:

    “Any American who risks his or her life to defend us has earned the respect and gratitude of every American citizen, irrespective of their views on this war. If Mr. Limbaugh made the remark he is reported to have made, it reflects very poorly on him and not the objects of his offensive comment. I expect most Americans, whatever their political views, will have the same reaction. He would be well advised to retract it and apologize.”

  113. If Mr. Limbaugh made the remark he is reported to have made
    As even a leftist should be able to comprehend, he did not. Media Matters made it up.

  114. About the chickenhawk thing: People do not have to have served in the military to make comments about a war, and you not need to have served to be a viable presidential candidate. However, if you think war is a great idea, and if you want soldiers to fight and die for the cause of the war, you should be willing to fight and die for it yourself. If you think that Viet Nam was a terrific idea and that the only problem is that we did not stay long enough, you credibility is undermined if you actively avoided service in the war. It means that you thought it was a noble cause and worth dying for…for someone else. Bill Clinton was against the war, he protested against the war, and he avoided service in the war. George Bush supported the war while it was fought and still supports it today, but actively avoided being sent to Viet Nam. The posters here can post all day about the TANG and how dangerous it was to fly the plane that Bush fought, but those of us old enough to remember those days know that National Guard service was a way to get out of going to Viet Nam. It’s very simple, if Bush wanted to fight in Viet Name he could have volunteered and went, but he didn’t. No amount of spin changes that fact. So, to those here who think the war in Iraq is the defining struggle of our age and who think that it should be prolonged and/or escalated, unless you have served or are serving int he military, you have no credibility. And before you start telling me how much I hate the military, let me share some facts with you. I am the granddaughter of a WWI vet, the child of a WWII vet. I have a BIL who is a retited Navy Captain, a neice who is in the Air Force and has deployed to Qtar, a nephew in the Army who has deployed to Afghanistan, and a son currently deployed in Iraq. He comes home in 28 days, please God he stays safe for one more month, and goes back in Feb. 0f 2009. So when tells us that know one wants the troops back more than she and George, I would laugh if the proper response was not tears.

  115. The house of cards falls the instant someone accidentally left in that pesky part of McCain’s quote “he [Limbaugh] is reported to have made.”
    Now that we can look to Dan Rather, Jayson Blair, Scott Beauchamp and Peter Arnett etc. we know that what is reported nowadays rarely has facts instead of supposition as the priority.

  116. George Bush supported the war while it was fought and still supports it today, but actively avoided being sent to Viet Nam.
    This is a prime example of how the Far Left has adopted the Hitlerian “Big Lie” technique when talking about the Iraq War. The same falsehood is repeated over and over, and by doing so it is somehow supposed to morph into the truth. Bush was part of the Air National Guard, which was routinely sent to Vietnam. No amount of spin changes that fact.
    Lefties can repeat the same lies from now until Doomsday, but it won’t make them facts. Keep guzzling the Kool-Aid “carol h”!

  117. George Bush supported the war while it was fought and still supports it today, but actively avoided being sent to Viet Nam.
    Repeating a falshood does not make it true. He enlisted in a unit which was active in Vietnam.
    unless you have served or are serving int he military, you have no credibility.
    In that case, I have credibility. But do you? Have you ever served? It seems not, but using your logic you have no right to an opinion on war.
    a son currently deployed in Iraq.
    Since we don’t have a draft, I assume he volunteered. Since we have been in Iraq since 2003, he is in the military because he chooses to be.
    Why do you imagine that his service gives you the “moral authority” to speak on this?

  118. It’s simply impossible to understand how a human can live in it’s own body when consumed by so much hatred; hatred of GW Bush; hatred of Rush Limbaugh; hatred of Cheney, Rove, Libby, Hannity, O’Reilly, Malkin, Coulter, Hewitt, God, Jesus, the American flag, the American power; on and on and on…
    In the mean while, these same hate filled humans bow at the knees at the likes of this man:
    http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=092707B
    while defending pure evil such as Soros, Chavez, and the little devil from Iran.
    Why argue with these lost souls…

  119. More than 125 posts! And, reading through them is a delight!
    Viking01, such a pleasure to see you coming back and pricking those balloons. (Too bad they’re here, because there weren’t enough of them at Jon Cary’s convention.)
    Oh, and compliments to others, as well.
    Especially, Xango Annie! Yes! I’m so glad you pointed it out. Hawks are great at catching chickens. And, other rodents much fleeter of foot.
    Nature just provides us with the appetizers.
    By the way, after you discard the insults from the left; do you see a single argument that would be called “debate worthy?”
    Bunch of angry hyenas. And, where they troll? We’re still having a good time, here.
    Of course, my major concern remains: Hillary is dumped before she can run.
    It’s practically an art form over in Bonkey land.

  120. carolh said:
    “The posters here can post all day about the TANG and how dangerous it was to fly the plane that Bush fought, but those of us old enough to remember those days know that National Guard service was a way to get out of going to Viet Nam. It’s very simple, if Bush wanted to fight in Viet Name he could have volunteered and went, but he didn’t”
    Did you actually read my post? Bush did ask to be sent to Vietnam. But he didn’t have enough flying hours to qualify.
    Plesae try again.

  121.  

     

    My appologies to the Capt in advance for the long post to follow to illustrate a point

     Note carefully how his first comment expresses an opinion about the Captain’s post but does nothing to factually refute it.

    All the rest is deflection and side stepping.

    timpundit’s contributions to the thread

    Oh baloney.

    the contortions you Rush Apologists have to go through to defend the draft-dodging chickenhawk is truly astounding. I hope you all stretched first to avoid painful cramps.

    The fact is that is EXACTLY what Rush was doing…caling soldiers who don’t agree with Bush “Phony”. It’s right there in the transcripts. Spin all you want, but like Bill O’rally, everyone can read it for themselves. Making pained excuses only makes it worse.

    Why Republicans hate our troops so much, I ‘ll never know. Maybe its’ jealousy that so many of them dodged the draft while real men and women went off to sacrifice.

    God bless and keep our troops…… far away from Republican Chicken Hawks.

     

    “Just curious-are Bill and Hillary Clinton “chickenhawks” too? How about Harry Reid? None of them served in the military, either. ”

    Certainly are. They are just as big a Draft-Dodger as Rush and President Failure and Cheney and Rumsfeld. Except for Hillary who was never eligible for the draft, of course.

    Glad we can agree.

     

    Mechanical Eye is tha Man or Woman. Whichever. Good post.

     

    And I should point out too, that I do not wish to make the claim that all Republicans Hate Our Troops or are Draft-dodgers or Chickenhawks or use 9/11 and the War for political advantage. Clearly that isn’t the case.

    It’s just too bad 95% of Republicans give the other 5% a bad name.

     

    Dear Rummy,

    Thank you for serving in your country. It doesn’t make up for the way you dishonestly led this nation into war, or excuse the decimation of our military and treasury or the series of boneheaded decisions you made that caused us to lose the occupation, creating more destruction of American and Iraqi lives…but still…thanks a lot.

     

    “those who served in the Air National Guard were “dodging the draft”?”

    Only when there was a draft going on at the same time, yes. Draft-Dodgers, or if you like politically correct newspeak = Avoided the draft.

     

    Jerry,

    Sorry you feel that way. I clearly admitted I was wrong…but, what you want…a groveling to Rummy simply isn’t going to happen.

    Perhaps if Rummy apologizes for his deadly mistakes and the dishonesty in taking us into war, will make me more inclined to apologize to him.

    I suggest you accept a half a loaf, make a sammich and get off the high horse.

     

    “It has been said before and we are seeing the truth of it now, that the only way a lefty can destroy a conservative is to lie about what they say.”

    Why is it that whenever a rightie steps in it, it’s always a Democrat’s fault?

    From Mark Foley to Vitter to Larry “widestance” Craig to Bill O’rally to Famous Comedien Rush Limbaugh, it’s always the darn democrats fault for pointing and hooting.

     

    Oh yeah. Yesirre, Bob.

    It’s only Lefties who insult. Got it.

     

    I will say that Matt Drudge is one of the most successful gay Republicans to pioneer the internet rightwing gossip rags. Kudos to him for that.

     

    My goodness…I can feel the love! And from the party of Jesus, too!

    Thanks, people. You like me…you really…really like me!

     

    Bush wasn’t sent to Vietnam because when the Vietnam war was going on, he joined the NG.

    In the 60s it was common knowledge to dodge the draft one need only get some inside help to joing the NG. Roughly 3% of NG actually went to Vietnam.

    Of course, that was back in the day when the NG wasn’t used and abused by the President to make up for enlistment shorcomings in trying to wage a war poorly planned and on the cheap… like Bush is doing now.

    Now it’s legal, but certainly it was Dodging the Draft to stay out of the war. A deadly war. One that would have put him in harm’ way.

    So use whatever politically correct terminology you want, but Bush dodged the draft.

     

    “Just a question out of curiosity. What percentage of silly Timmy’s comments is he simply cutting from blogs over there and pasting here?”

    0% that I am aware of? Why? have you found my comments to be stolen from somewhere?

    Or were you just itching to get an insult before school lets out?

     

    “The key item about tim’s comments is to review them and see how much he responded to the issue of Capt Ed’s fisking of the issue and how many comments just danced around it without actually providing counter points.”

    I see.

    So, the key here is to see how much ‘drift’ there is from the original article…and anyone who participated in said ‘drift’ is…what again?

    A spammer? have I got that right?

     

    I have never seen so many people afraid to have a little opposition to thier views.

    I mean look at this…people are actually spending time trying to figure out whether I am a serial spammer or an “irregular” participant, and my persoanl favorite…a “scout”. Even to the extent someone wants a web search to check out possible plagerism. man, when the refrain that Republicans are always trying to distract from this real issues comes about, one need only look here to see it happening live.

    You make Freeperville look positively sane.

    But, never fear. I’m away for the weekend but look forward to your clever insults and conspiracy theories next week. I know, I know…no need to thank me.

     

     

  122. Carol H wrote:
    About the chickenhawk thing: People do not have to have served in the military to make comments about a war, and you not need to have served to be a viable presidential candidate. However, if you think war is a great idea, and if you want soldiers to fight and die for the cause of the war, you should be willing to fight and die for it yourself.
    So again, Carol, for those who say we should be fighting the real war on terror and not be sidetracked by Iraq, why are libs not flocking to the recruiting office to join that war? They have no problem making other fight the REAL war on on terror I guess. When liberals talk about how we should be going after Osama bin Laden, why aren’t they hopping planes to afghanistan to assist in the search? Clearly, anyone who wants us to find Osama and isn’t himself looking for osama is a chicken hawk, and anyone who isn’t fighting the “real war” on terror is similarly a chicken hawk if they’re not in afghanistan. So how does it feel to be a chickenhawk, chickenhawk?
    Also,if you want to argue the chicken hawk argument then why isn’t the converse of the chicken hawk argument true. You don’t want to fight and die for a war, so why should you critisize a war that you refuse to fight, when others are willing to fight it and die for it. If you dont want to make the commitment or think its wrong, who cares what you have to say about it since you aren’t serving? The chicken hawk argument I guess should silence me because I suport the troops but am not serving, but should also silence you because you don’t support the troops or the effort and since you’re not contributing anything to it, and they are, you have no right to complain or suggest they’re doing it wrong.
    Also, this whole chicken hawk argument is getting awfully tiresome because its so unrealistic. Some people are not fit to serve, some are too old to serve, some are too young to serve and some are doing other things with their lives. and their are other priorities beyond fighting a war.
    What if I feel we shoudl guard the border, does that mean I have to become a border agent? What if I think teaching is important, does that mean i have to be a teacher? What if I think its important to maintain law and order, does that mean I have to be a cop? what if I think the war is right, law and order is important, ecucation is critical, protecting the border is important, all at the same time? Does that mean I have to do all at once otherwise cannot have opinions on such matters.How would that work, would I be in the army on mondays, then fly back to the states, run down to the border for a day then put on a policemans uniform and keep the peace, then get up and go teach my students algebara? Orhow about if i support Habitat for Humanity. Why are other people being forced to build houses and I supposedly am for building houses, yet am not myself hammering nails into a wall. Am I then a chicken carpenter forcing others to do the carpentry I refuse to do?
    Or what if I’m already a police officer because I want to maintain law and order, and then a war starts which I support. Does that mean I have to spend 6 months in the war and 6 months fighting crime? or have to stop fighting crime and start fighting a war?
    Meanwhile if you don’t support a war you get to say whatever you want, get to denigrate those who are fighting a war, have no basis to judge (since you aren’t in fact carrying a rifle off to war so are not basing your opinion on any experience on your part)and yet soldiers have to heed what you say, you who have never served?
    If you think that the world should be run like Starship troopers and only those who serve should have the right to vote, thats one thing, but then argue that,and shut up and dont’ vote and dont critisize and dont complain. But if the world isn’t run like that then if there is a policy decision made (which I had no input into by the way) which I agree with then I’ll agree and support it and if I dont I wont.if you don’t support it fine, but dont try to smear people with a bogus argument which you think is awfully clever, because frankly its not clever. Its simply a means of shutting down the oppositions voice (anti free speech) through demagogic tactics and smear.

  123. Do I think Limbaugh is anti-military? No. Do I think he cares for the troops anything beyond lip service? That would be no too. Is the guy just an opportunist that will denigrate anything someone on the opposite side of him has done just to appease his audience? Absolutely. Remember this is the guy that called Iraq War veteran Paul Hackett a “staff puke”, who only went to Iraq to “pad his resume”, as well as saying veteran Tom Daschle’s nickname could be “Hanoi Tom” or “Tokyo Tom”. And you could fill an entire comments section with all the racist statements made by Limbaugh. Bottom line is the guy is a two bit opportunist who hasn’t seen a cheap shot he didn’t like.

  124. dwightkschrute
    I gather that you dislike Rush Limbaugh. Thanks for sharing. But what does that have to do with the topic here? The left are clearly lying about what the man said.
    PS, what do you think about the phony soldiers, like MacBeth?

  125. Hey, Jr. 565. Are you stupid?
    You stick words in my mouth that I never said? ANd, you have the audacity to put this crap in bold face?
    By the way, putz, I served as long in the military as Hillary Rodham.
    Doesn’t make me a Hillary Rodham fan, either.
    Talk about having to point out the obvious to an idiot.

  126. Remember this is the guy that called Iraq War veteran Paul Hackett a “staff puke”, who only went to Iraq to “pad his resume”
    Well, this seems to be correct. Both what Rush said, and what Hackett was. I note that even the Dems have discarded the man.

  127. I came here, first.
    As to the “poster” who now writes under the “Carol H” label. It ain’t me. Nor am I complimented by this jerk.

  128. The whole “chicken hawk” argument reminds me of the kids in school who told the rest of us that because we hadn’t done illegal drugs like them, we couldn’t have an opinion about illegal drugs. It’s the same childish logic.
    Of course, military service does confer experience that those who don’t serve lack. At most levels of the military, however, the experience of service doesn’t qualify them as “experts” on matters of high foreign policy or even military strategy, for example. Military tactics or logistics, maybe. Only the senior guys really can go head to head with the civilian guys on military policy, and on what the military can and cannot achieve.
    B/T/W, I saw a chicken hawk hit a chicken coop last weekend. Beautiful birds, both chicken and chicken hawk. The farmer was NOT happy!

  129. Always nice to see those who are “tolerant” of different viewpoints out in force.
    BTW – – – – is it your position here “FALSE BUT ACCURATE”?
    i.e., “OK, Limbaugh didn’t say that, but I don’t care about the truth in this particular case because he’s a cretin.”
    Sounds a lot like “ends justifies the means” ….
    something else you’re supposedly against, what with your highly developed sense of morality.

  130. It is worth remembering that, in all this faux outrage over the Guard being deployed, that the previous administration is who oversaw the drawdown of active duty forces and passed on a lot of responsibilities to the Guard as roundout formations in order to reap the “peace dividend” following the end of the Cold War.
    They also decided it was cheaper to outsource other functions to contractors.
    They were right in the cost savings but now the bills are coming due.
    PT

  131. I see the Kos kids have there talking points and are hitting all the websites. I wonder what’s it like to be a useful idiots for Soros and the Clinton propaganda machine ? The Soros / Clinton hite machine named Media Matters job is to shut up or marginalize all the media people not peddling the new Soros / Clinton socialist world order. There people know there fellow leftist minnows will attack and distort and lie just like the fellow leftist did in Russia and Cuba and Nazi Germany . The key leftist strategy is to tell a lie over and over again until it becomes the reality . That is why good leftist Tim and the other DUers here must stick to the same talking points and say them over and over ! Rush and O’Reilly are in the way of big power grab in 2008! Trust me this website will be the one of the first to get SHUT DOWN by Comrade Hilary’s regime ! The left world order can survive in a open and free society . Just ask Hugo or how about Gorby !

  132. Dwight Cherroot said:
    “And you could fill an entire comments section with all the racist statements made by Limbaugh.”
    “Am emtire comments section”, Gracie? Please give us credible examples-key word: “credible”. I’m only aware of one racist statement the man made, and that was when he was using a radio name, and that was probably 25 years ago. No sane person can call what he said about Donovan McNabb “racist”.
    As for this tired old “chickenhawk” word: The disaster known as the Vietnam War was escalated by two bona fide war heroes, Dwight Eisenhower and John F. Kennedy, and aided by another old Navy man, Lyndon Johnson. Their being military men had no impact on that war.
    And no one on the left ever called draft-dodger Bill Clinton a “chickenhawk” when he started his war of choice without UN consent in Kosovo.
    By the way, according to the Navy, Billy Jeff Clinton posed for FOUR aircraft carrier photo ops while “Commander in Chief”. That’s 4 times as many as Dubyah.

  133. Goof points jr565…
    Carol Herman,
    This poster directed his comments to Carol H & not to you; you probably have that one figured out by now. There could only be one Carol Herman residing here at CQ… The new Carol H is obviously a member of the American Socialist Party otherwise referred to as modern day Liberalism; a mental disorder.

  134. Carol Herman not Carol H,
    Wasn’t referring to you nor quoting you, so Id appreciate you laying off the insults.

  135. Carol Herman not Carol H,
    Though considering Carol H would be short for Carol Herman, I can see why you would think I was confronting you and not someone else with the same(or very similar) moniker.

  136. As far as I can tell the good Capt has logically demonstrated the wrongness of the faux outrage and creative spin of the Rush remarks, and unless I missed it in this thread, no one has advanced an argument to disprove the assertions make by the Capt.
    He correctly points out also the parallel situation with the Bush Mandella remarks being spun in a comparable manner.
    It is telling that some need to stoop to these measures when there must be something factually based out there they could choose to use rather than this transparently week premise and projection.

  137. Part of Limbaugh’s problem is sloppy wording — while he has a specific example, he doesn’t have many examples. And there are other, genuine, soldiers who are against the war. Whether he meant to or not, he lumped the real veterans-turned-war-critics in with the phonies. Another part of it is the willingness of the Right to attack vets who differ with them — the assault on John McCain in 2000 and the assaults on the military records (not just current positions) of John Murtha and Max Cleland.

  138. It’s funny to watch the lefties here argue with each other. (Ken and Micah.)
    Whether he meant to or not, he lumped the real veterans-turned-war-critics in with the phonies
    Still waiting for ANY of you people to back up your claims with reference to the transcript.
    Another part of it is the willingness of the Right to attack vets who differ with them –
    You never ever see people on the left doing this. I guess they just have so much respect for the military. That’s why they have nothing but good things to say about the Swift Boat Vets.

  139. Carol Herman:
    You have beed hit with the impostor post tactic. You use a very similar name as a regular poster to post a turgid piece of crap, then watch the fun as the confusion causes hurt feelings.
    Carolh was, however, a poor impostor. Unlike he/she/it, you actually know how to use paragraphs to make your posts readable. I must admit I skipped over carolh’s post after about the third sentence. It was just plain unreadable; not like you at all.

  140. I looked at the original claims of the media matters post and even though they had substantial amounts of the transcript of the exchanges, they were clearly making claims as to what Rush said or intended.

    They neglected to include any of the commentary Rush made about Macbeth and such, choosing to frame their argument and basically try to put together a conclusion not supported by the facts of the issue.

    On most of the left of center blogs, the quoted transcript was given the short shrift of only quoting

    CALLER: No, it’s not, and what’s really funny is, they never talk to real soldiers. They like to pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and talk to the media.

    LIMBAUGH: The phony soldiers.

    CALLER: The phony soldiers. If you talk to a real soldier, they are proud to serve. They want to be over in Iraq. They understand their sacrifice, and they’re willing to sacrifice for their country.

    Clearly going with that small snippet as the totality to base their conclusion and chosing to ignore the broader issue addressed by Rush and describing specific examples of the type of person, ie fabulists that were the object of his ire.

    Media Matters case was weak and wrong but then the others just running with the shorter context quoted above were making unsupportable assertions from the thin stuff they chose to present, that was readily discounted by the other commentary Rush did that countered their jump in logic but somehow was conviently left out of the discussion.

    It would be reasonable to conclude that Rush considered the first caller to possibly being a seminar caller.

    Even the audio clip media matters has posted doesn’t include any of the disclaiming commentary by Rush about MacBeth and such.

    It was clearly putting just as much out as necessary to allegedly support their faulty conclusion and selectively ignoring all the other parts that discounted their leap in logic that was not supported by what they did reveal. 

     

  141. Well,
    you can probably read much better than I can type.
    Doh! beyond, not beyone.
    Seriously, Isn’t it amazing what kind of traffic a Rush thread gets? Do mechanical eye-bots scurry the net looking for any Rush mention? then alert the DU(h)?

  142. Micah
    I rarely use sarc, but I have developed the habit of adding either
    /s or /snark off
    to eliminate the doubt for the comprehension challenged.
    Media Matters has a whole staff of personnel who are assigned to monitor, record and transcribe a wide range of targets they wish to follow 24/7.
    Also they mine the web for any stories or commentary related to the list of names they filter stories by.
    For their highest profile targets, it is my understanding that they have two teams working in parallel to ensure they capture everything they are targeting to avoid a single point of failure.
    Then it’s only a matter of selectively framing their position with careful editing of the content they present , doing just enough to allege their improperly argued conclusion.
    From there it spreads and their faulty logic is only reinforced by the left wing multiple sources to bang the drum.

  143. Whew. Thanks Brian Epps.
    Imposters are usually easy enough to recognize.
    And, as Day Trader explains to Micah, there’s a whole business world of opportunity out there; where people who might only be flipping hamburgers; can put their “college kredentials” to better use; working for “Media Matters.” Though I would think that after exposure to the Right’s materials; at some point, daylight shines in.
    It really is hard to hire them as brain dead as Cindy Sheehan.
    Perhaps, I owe Jr. 565 an apology. Since he wasn’t quote me at all. Alas, the imposter did not have on Groucho Marx glasses, with eyebrows and mustache, attached.
    See Dawn? I cleared that one up for ya.

  144. Yes it is Soros, but he keeps a couple of degrees of separation to give plausible denyability.
    He tends to do indirect funding via his Open Society Institute or via the Tides Foundation or through the Democracy Alliance.
    Always trying to launder and obscure the path directly back to him.
    If you fully study Soros you can see the interlocked web of hundreds of entities he is involved with and utilizes to give his death by a thousand cuts efforts.

  145. Soros is a money changer. By definition that is NOT a capitalist. Capitalism is a result of the Wealth of Nations, not the Wealth of Some other Nation that I manipulated their currency to gain a favorable exchange raite. Soros is a leach.

  146. Ah, Day Trader, I am so reminded of the military mistakes of the russians! When they applied their tactics to the KGB!
    In other words? Most russians had no idea what was happening in America.
    But then? The KGB used to pick through our news; and then run with “stuff.” For instance, they “ran” with the Rodney King Riots! The russians couldn’t believe their eyes! They weren’t listening to what was being said. Instead, they saw American blacks, wearing jeans. ANd, NEW sneakers. Arriving in cars. And, unloading (for free) so many TV sets! WHere the russians had no idea we even had stores like that, with so much merchandise on the shelves.
    Soros is really a currency bettor. (If you’ve noticed? There seems to be a system where you can play “currency.” So that England, which just had a run on its banks, is suddenly with a currency better than the dollar! As all those people who unload gold, are also doing it, now, at premium prices.)
    And, yes. There are suckers born every minute.
    Soros has also managed to get himself in trouble, because he’s a known market manipulator. Playing with him, usually bankrupts others. Stupid enough to “play” with him.
    As to the Clintoons; where they’ve taken money from the Chinese; all I can say is that they are GRIFTERS. Soros wants to fund this? Well, I can’t stop him.
    Someday, though, this stuff can give us a good laugh?
    Like the KGB, where you think they’d have understood russians, they missed their marks by miles.
    The truth has an uncanny ability to lift spirits.
    It also tends to come out. Plus, people who have dealt with Soros, find it’s similar to having dealt with Sinatra. You just never knew when he’d turn.

  147. Carol Herman (not Carol H)wrote:
    Perhaps, I owe Jr. 565 an apology. Since he wasn’t quote me at all. Alas, the imposter did not have on Groucho Marx glasses, with eyebrows and mustache, attached.
    No apologies necessary. Blame it on the trolls. 🙂

  148. Ya know,if Bubba didn’t have Monica, I don’t think anyone would bother to even remember his name, these days. Monica added a certain “panache.” To the GRIFTERS.
    Oddly enough, I think it’s because Monica added an element of romance to the cigars.
    Senator Frank Church, for instance, was never as lucky.
    And, I still don’t think Hillary has a shot at winning.
    While soon to fall off the Bonkey stage, I think Obama is gonna cancel an extended stay. At least per his wife: IF he doesn’t nail Iowa, it’s “over.”
    Bush also hasn’t played every card in his hand.
    This means Newt’s bashing Bush may turn into a waste of time. OR? He’s applying for Hillary’s veep.
    Okay, I never said I was much good at predicting the future outcomes.
    But, for something we were taking for granted; it sure has plot twists in this unusual show.

  149. Micah I don’t know if you will be back to see this or not.
    If I don’t hear from you I will try to catch you on another active thread.
    I just created a throw away email just for you.
    mail me via nanosecondinv-aff to the domain yahoo dot you know what that begins with a C and indicate in the body of the message who you are.
    I have something I want to show you you will be interested in.

  150. Oops!
    I wrote
    “Am emtire comments section”, Gracie?”
    Sorry, the m and n keys are right next door.
    Ken Leonard said:
    “the assault on John McCain in 2000 and the assaults on the military records (not just current positions) of John Murtha and Max Cleland.”
    First of all, your use of Cleland gives you away, as that’s been a seminar response to not just this story but the smear of General Petraeus.
    If you bother to research the Cleland story from factually correct sources, you would find that the DNC used poor Max as a useful idiot for years-he lost his limbs in Vietnam due to an unfortunate ACCIDENT, when a live grenade fell out of his pocket. Yet the DNC portrayed him for years as a “war hero” because he was disabled by the war. Meanwhile, in 2007, groups of anti-war nuts sit outside military hospitals and berate vets. Do a search on “Code Pink”
    And during the recent election that Cleland lost, the opponent who beat him never made an issue of his disability. They busted him on his ideas and politics, which is one thing that sends you leftist Bozos into utter meltdown. Sure is fun to watch (and I love the smell of burning Socialists in the morning)

  151. Hey there DayTrader,
    I rarely post but i always read and enjoy the cap’n.
    I’ve gotten to the point of disgust with the liberal lines of discussion, and my gloves are off. I’d like to post more, but the whole time thing… working, two teenage kids, and so on, and so on…

  152. I follow about 250 blogs and news sites because I have great software to do it with and post on about 70 of them under unique user names for each blog I post on.
    Also each has a unique registration email address so I can easily identify the source of any spam originating from a given blog.
    Plus I can create unlimited single purpose usage email addresses I simply burn after they have served their short term purpose.

  153. DayTrader,
    Altho’ I programmed for about 10 years, including XENIX (am I showing my age?) and Clipper, I can’t quite decipher the 9:27 post. I sent a guess off to a Daytrader@, but I’m thinking that’ll bounce off. Perhaps if I tried to follow your post literally? I’ll see what happens….

  154. My first name is Carol and my last name begins with H, so I use carol h as my screen name every time I comment on a website, which isn’t very often. I am certainly not hoping to be confused with carol herman, whose longer and rambling posts I seldom do more than scim. I lurk here almost daily but post only occaisionally.

  155. It is interesting to lurk here and see the 34% of the population who still support Bush in action. Do you think I care what you say about me? You can call me all the names you want but it doesn’t change the facts about Rush, GWB, or the current situation in Iraq. I’m driving down to Ft. Hood tomorrow to help my 22 year old DIL set up an apartment so it will be ready when my son returns from Iraq on Oct. 25. My son has put his life on the line for his country every day for the last 14 months and he will do it for one more month until he comes home. It’s something Rush and GWB never did.

  156. Well, the liberal trolls came out for this one! Fools. If your only source of info is Media Matters and the local Democrat Kool-Aid stand then you could… conceivably… believe the bogus charge that Rush Limbaugh said “any soldier against the war is a phony soldier”. If, however, one insists that Rush would actually have to SAY this to be charged with it, then it helps to read the transcript, or watch the YouTube video, or listen to the podcast, or get your Liberal head out of your A## because it ain’t there! Wishing it WERE there, like Dan Rather wishing for verfication of a story he desperately wants to be true, doesn’t make it true! Timpundit apparently can’t read: he claims he knows exactly what Rush meant and it’s right there in the transcript. Why does the left find it necessary to truncate what Rush said… hmmm… could it be, like in the Bill Bennett case, they’re LYING?

  157. Day Trader, if you’re checking back, thanks for the link to Rush Limbaugh’s piece up on U-Tube.
    NOTHING works against George Soros’ money; like this stuff when it gets passed from hand to hand.
    Remember this: Soros has placed his bets; and he can lose!

  158. That same clip is available at bunches of places, I found it first on HotAir and see Powerline also posted it.
    It was also on the front page of Rush’s site.
    As Rush pointed out during his commentary, it was sort of like revisiting the Michael J. Fox affair and how that was all distorted.
    I see from my newsfeeds that some on the left are still going with the same story like nothing has changed.

  159. Media Matters has forgotten the first rule of holes and keeps digging. They are having the gall to say Rush selectively edited his rebuttal and called the playback a full replay. I will give them that it wasn’t covering the minute or so in between.  They have a point, but here is the part of the transcript they post today from the “gap” in his playback.

    LIMBAUGH: Well, you —

    [begin Limbaugh edit]

    LIMBAUGH: — know where you’re going these days, the last four years, if you signed up. The odds are you’re going there or Afghanistan or somewhere.

    CALLER 2: Exactly, sir. And, and my other comment was — and the reason I was calling for — was to report to Jill about the fact that we didn’t, didn’t find any weapons of mass destruction. Actually, we have found weapons of mass destruction in chemical agents that [inaudible] been using against us for awhile now.

    I’ve done two tours in Iraq. I just got back in June and there were many instances of — since [inaudible] not know what they’re using in their IEDs [improvised explosive devices]. They’re using mustard artillery rounds. The VX artillery rounds in their IEDs.

    Because they didn’t know what they were using, they didn’t do it right, and so it just kind of — it, it didn’t really hurt anybody but there are — those munitions are over there, it’s just — it’s a huge desert. If they’ve buried it somewhere, we’re never gonna find it.

    LIMBAUGH: Well, you know, that’s a moot point for me right now —

    MIKE: Rush —

    LIMBAUGH: — the weapons of mass destruction. We gotta get beyond that. We’re, we’re there. What — who cares if, if — we all know they were there and, and Mahmoud [Ahmadinejad, Iranian president] even admitted it in one of his speeches here about — talkin’ about Saddam using the poison mustard gas or whatever it is on his own people — but that, that’s moot, right? What, what’s more important is all this is taking place now in the midst of the surge working.

    And all of these anti-war Democrats are getting even more hell-bent on pulling out of there, which means that success on the part of you and, and your colleagues over there is, is a great threat to them.

    [end Limbaugh edit]

    LIMBAUGH: It’s just, it’s frustrating and maddening, and it is why they must be kept in the minority.

     

     As you can see, it is a short exchange with the second caller about IED’s and the surge and not germain to the controversey at all..

     So I will give them Rush erred in saying “full” playback and should have used a different term, but considering their own original transcript and audio cherry picking methinks they doth protest too much.

  160. cry me river you hypocrite.
    so where were you when the media were all over al gore in 2000 for supposedly puffing himself up. or john kerry in 2004
    oh, i see. its okay when the media takes quotes out of context if its against librulz.
    Thats right, captain ed for half truths injustice and the republican way.

  161. No john r.
    We never said it was ok for the media to take anything out of context.
    It’s wrong period.
    That’s the point.
    But it’s nice you admit Rush was taken out of context…..that is what you implied right?

  162. MMFA going after anyone for “selective editing” is like Clinton supporters who attack Giuliani and Thompson over their marriages.

  163. Rush and the phony soldiers- The truth emerges

    Those who read here often may have noted that in many cases, I do not break news often, and quite often the story has settled down before I post commentary.  I do this intentionally.  There are plenty on both sides who love to scream the…

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