Hours after releasing an admission that he had helped kill dogs and had bankrolled gambling as part of a dogfighting operation, Michael Vick got an indefinite suspension from the NFL. Commissioner Roger Goodell cited the “cruel and reprehensible” nature of Vick’s acts, but it does not necessarily preclude Vick from a return to gridiron action in the future:
The NFL indefinitely suspended Michael Vick without pay Friday just hours after he acknowledged in court papers that he did, indeed, bankroll gambling on dogfighting and helped kill some dogs not worthy of the pit.
Vick, however, insisted he placed no bets of his own nor took any winnings.
In disciplining Vick, commissioner Roger Goodell said Vick’s admitted conduct was “not only illegal but also cruel and reprehensible” and regardless whether he personally placed bets, “your actions in funding the betting and your association with illegal gambling both violate the terms of your NFL player contract and expose you to corrupting influences in derogation of one of the most fundamental responsibilities of an NFL player.”
Many wondered whether Vick would get a chance to plea out without taking responsibility for killing dogs or gambling on the illegal dogfights. Sports Illustrated reported yesterday that he would not do so, but obviously the US Attorney on the case refused to cut a deal otherwise. Vick didn’t have much leverage; his three co-conspirators had already cut deals to testify against him.
Instead, Vick was forced to capitulate and submit a stipulation that the government would have proven a number of allegations beyond a reasonable doubt. The crimes included interstate transport to promote an illegal business, conspiring to do same, buying the property explicitly for that purpose, and so on. Paragraph 32 states that Vick and his partners “rolled” or tested dogs in April 2007, when the investigation first hit the news, and that “approximately 6-8 dogs … were killed by various methods, including hanging and drowning. Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips, and Vick.” Paragraph 4 states that “Most of the “Bad Newz Kennels” operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick.”
It doesn’t get much clearer than that. Vick’s attorneys say that he will have a statement for the press later. It’s hard to see how he can spin this any other way than to admit to being just a little depraved.
However, depraved sells in the NFL. Even if Vick gets the 12-18 months that some have suggested, he could be ready for 2009. Will the NFL remain as offended then as they are now? As Duane Patterson and I discussed today on CQ Radio, Baltimore’s Ray Lewis managed to come back to the NFL after pleading out to obstruction of justice in a case where human beings died rather than dogs. The league shrugged that off, and Lewis has been a good citizen ever since, at least publicly.
Will they let Vick do the same? It’s hard to imagine that any team will be too keen on attaching themselves to Vick at the moment, but that could change in a couple of years. Once he’s paid the price for his crime, he’ll probably be 29 years old and still in good shape. Look for the NFL to soften its stance and allow Vick to latch onto a team — and don’t be surprised if he lands in Oakland.
Are fighting dogs the new “chic” ?
No Captain, you are quite wrong here.
The NFL has a thug problem that is widespread and threatens the value of the teams for their owners.
Quick, how much LESS are the Falcons worth to Arthur Blank now? Compared to say, a year ago?
That is the risk that every team owner faces, with the prospect of an NBA-type meltdown in fans, sponsorship, ratings, and therefore MONEY into the pockets of owners.
Goodell is Commish for one reason: reign in the thugs and clean house. Expect more thugs to get banned particularly if Vick can be goaded into naming other names.
Bet on Joe Horn, Vick’s brother, and others to get banned.
The gambling thing of course, can seriously reduce the NFL’s money intake. Already I’ll bet the broadcasters are after give-backs on their contracts, and the NFL Network is going to lose money for the owners longer. With more difficult fights with cable and satellite companies on how much money is paid to carry it.
This is about MONEY. So expect Vick to be made an example of.
The one fly in the ointment is the gambling.
Previous gamblers have been tossed for life, for the “good of the sport”.
At least the credibility of the player’s efforts to win instead of help sway certain contests in certain gambler’s interests.
Vic would be exactly such a risk, in any given game. Did he go all out, or shave points, or throw a game even?
I also personally believe that the NFL pension needs to be rewritten to support only those (or additional support to those) who are helping the sport’s reputation.
Grunge, long hair, affiliations to illegal “stuff”(dog fighting is one), and tats would be no-nos.
While Jim Rockford is speaking in terms of what SHOULD happen in this case, the Captain is laying out the reality.
It is indeed about money, Jim, but the draw into the stadiums and the TV revenues will dictate that Vick lands another gig, if not in Oakland as the Captain predicts, then in Dallas.
See Owens, Terrel.
“Vick, however, insisted he placed no bets of his own nor took any winnings.”
Yeah, it was a hobby, yeah that’s it, a hobby. Spent all that money just ’cause he liked to see dogs fight.
Right.
Okay. I’m not sure I even have 2-cents to throw in here; but I think Pete Rose had spent a decade, or more, IN baseball. Where he put up quite a record.
Then? He bet. And, he knew the rules. So he fell afoul. HE DID NOT KILL DOGS!
Vicks, on the other hand, just blew his career (which was coming, ahead), to smithereens.
After jail? He’ll be older. But he won’t be in the same shape he’d have been in if he had the next few years to build a reputation. other than one as a dog killer.
I also don’t know how money has changed sports. It seems we’re watching “spectaculars.” And, lots of time all that money spent doesn’t produce great games. Let alone “team loyalty.” Gosh, at one time that was also part of this equation.
But it’s a “big enterprize,” now. Built by mega-millionnaires.
I’m not sure, but sports may not always attract crowds who want to spend fortunes. Especially to go to games in the wintertime. When you freeze your butt off. And, you’d see more if you stayed home, and watched this on television.
Still? There’s many a marriage that defaults to the tube. Nobody’s “home.” But you do get to spend a lot of energy. And, drink a lot of beer.
And, IF someone went out to do a study? Someone convicted of KILLING DOGS isn’t gonna be a “success” no matter how you want to measure this one. ESPECIALLY IF YOU THINK VICKS IS SO TALENTED PEOPLE WILL FORGIVE AND FORGET. No. They. Won’t.
Kill dogs, go to jail. Kill babies, the National Mall fills with “people” to cheer you on. Societal meltdown. We are closer to the end of the United States than the begining.
GarlandFan,
You hit the nail on the head. Are we to believe that Vick had some charitable motivation behind doing this? So, he “bankrolled” the gambling operation for free?
I’m not buying, but I guess we’ll never know the whole story…at least until one of Vick’s cronies writes a tell-all book.
Pete bet on his own team to win. He broke the rules and paid the price. He is no Michael Vick though, and he is not like the Chicago Blacksox that threw games. Pete was an idiot, but he never threw a game. Michael Vick is an animal.
“…IF someone went out to do a study? Someone convicted of KILLING DOGS isn’t gonna be a “success” no matter how you want to measure this one. ESPECIALLY IF YOU THINK VICK IS SO TALENTED PEOPLE WILL FORGIVE AND FORGET. No. They. Won’t.”
I sure hope you’re right, Carol, but I predict that shortly before Vick is released, he’ll become a born-again Christian. He’ll appear on Larry King with his head hanging in shame, perhaps donate a sizable amount to PETA and/or SPCA, sign a gigantic contract with any one of the NFL teams who don’t give a $hit about what he did or whether he feels a grain of remorse, and when he averages 100 yards rushing a game, he’ll be forgiven. Count on it.
Oh dear! Is Vick getting the Nifong treatment from the NFL?…LOL!
Suspending Vick isn’t a big deal since he’s at best a mediocre talent on the field…
Sorry Cap’n.
Vick won’t play in 2008, 2009, or 2010. Probably never again.
Goodell has made it clear where he is steering the league, and it aint towards thuggery.
Oh, Vick will NOT go to Oakland, they drafted JaMarcus Russell and eventually will sign him.
I am a Broncos fan, so I WISH he would go there…
ken
This whole situation is pretty cool. I just spent a little time at Democratic Underground and Kos. They are just as conflicted, with a little more than half calling for his balls in a cup, and a minority saying that he is being persecuted because he is black.
Could this be the issue that brings Right and Left together?
Nah, of course not. But it is still an interesting side issue.
YukonBill
Vick is going to have to give up a lot of other dog fighters — this little ring did not operate in a vacuum. Michael may have a bunch of enemies in jail. If you can believe his father, he’s been doing this for many years.
I predict it’ll have to be 2010 before he gets back in. But if he does, it’s going to be for a lot less (and as a running back) because most teams won’t want him.
SOP – standard op. pro…..
yep. Vick – is the lowest of the low for abusing “mans best friend” – and those of you who have had a dog (or cat – I love them too!) know what I’m talking about. IF it were up to me – i’d give the asshole 10-yrs, with hard labor.
But it ain’t up to me cause I’m nobody – like most here.
We will hear a sanctimonous outcry by all and a convienent forgetfullness in a couple of years will take hold of all and Vick will be back on top.
Oh and cut the hypocritical protest – we all know that our society has no moral standing and a dumb sport is more valued than compassion toward God’s creatures (Man’s best friend) by most six-pack Joe Average Americans.
oh ya – it’s all Klintoon’s fault.
almost forgot to add that. shame shame.
“Vick, however, insisted he placed no bets of his own nor took any winnings.”
As i heard on NPR this evening.
In otherwords: He was a drug dealer – but he only sold the crank, he never was a user!!
So its all ok. He was a bookie – and not a gambler.
see? no big deal.
Hey! what about them Cowboys!
Does the World League have a team in Seoul?
When he gets out of jail some team will probably take him. If he is able to return to playing, Vick better get used to a lot of verbal abuse from the fans. When Atlanta fans booed him, he flipped them the bird.
As someone else said dog biscuits will probably be rained down on him, and you just know some clown will start singing “Who Let The Dogs Out”.
When he gets out of jail some team will probably take him. If he is able to return to playing, Vick better get used to a lot of verbal abuse from the fans. When Atlanta fans booed him, he flipped them the bird.
As someone else said dog biscuits will probably be rained down on him, and you just know some clown will start singing “Who Let The Dogs Out”.
When he gets out of jail some team will probably take him. If he is able to return to playing, Vick better get used to a lot of verbal abuse from the fans. When Atlanta fans booed him, he flipped them the bird.
As someone else said dog biscuits will probably be rained down on him, and you just know some clown will start singing “Who Let The Dogs Out”.
Michael Vick: Banned From NFL
I’m a little late on this, but it’s pretty big. You can use the juice and get in the Hall of Fame, but cruelty to dogs gets you banned. Indefinitely, that is. I don’t disagree, I just think it’s odd what does and does …
Does anyone know where he’s likely to be incarcerated? I would assume a serious facility, not a work camp or something like that. This being said, I can’t imagine he will do well inside. I would think a lot of inmates will want to go after him, because of who he is (if not for what he did and maybe that, too). Oh, well, I guess he can do what Mike Tyson did, join the Muslim Brotherhood for protection (and no I don’t mean to imply that Tyson’s conversion wasn’t sincere, although I suppose I just did).
For a bunch of conservatives, many of you are missing some important points:
– as between the NFL and Vick, and their other players, this is all about money. The team owners are businessmen and they only care about their pockets, which is why they will use their officially sanctioned monopoly to lock Vick out now to cut their losses, but might very well take him back later. Note that these guys have persuaded Congress to pass laws that protect them while they coordinate to lockout particular laborers. Is this what our government should be doing?
– the gambling stuff is all a canard. Vick`s not gambling on NFL games; if at all, he`s gambling on DOGS. What`s the big difference – as long as he`s not gambling on football – between whether he gambles on licensed horse races, at the casinos, on lottery tickets, the internet or on dogs? None! This is only about the state and federal governments protecting their own monopolies and revenues. What the heck is government doing in these businesses anyway?
– the gambling aspect is the main hook by which the FEDS have bumped aside ambivalent Virgina state prosecutors to get Vick. As I noted on the prior Vick thread, http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/011738.php, traditionally, virtually all criminal law has been a matter of state or local law, and there is really no good basis in the Constitution for federalizing criminal law, which has been done here on the basis of the Commerce Clause, which has been interpreted to allow the federal government meddle in EVERYTHING. The federal government really has no business in taking over state criminal law, especially here, when the state prosecutors themselves aren`t particularly eager to nail Vick. Why did the states give the feds this authority, which just serves to further bloat our federal overlords? Simply to use the feds to help enforce their ridiculous gambling monopolies. The RICO charge was outrageous.
That aside, I hate dog fighting, but let`s be aware of the role of government in limiting our freedom to protect its own monopolies and power, while it favors special interests along the way.
TT
TT. I agree on the Feds being out of control on this and many, many other issues.
But how “smart” are you to be talking about the gambling? Do you know what was written in Vick’s contract? He did “willingly” sign a contract didn’t he? Would the NFL be wrong to hold him to the gambling specifics of his signed contract?
TT baby, The libertarian in me rejects gambling issues (In law). The sportsman in me, something you obviously have not clue about knows that links to gamblers leaves whichever particular dick head (In this case Vick) open to fixing games. It’s really simple. Sheesh. Which laws did the NFL have passed by congress in order to thwart the working stiffs of America? That’s two incredibly stupid statements in one post.
Before walking too close to the cliff, TT and donald might each do well to familiarize themselves with the Sherman and Wagner Acts as they apply to lockouts and collusive action by NFL owners.
It’s soooo hard when one hits the big time to leave your ghetto buddies (baddies) behind!
Ted
Vick is toast, the main reason being that he is a mediocre talent. He hasn’t done anything well enough to build any kind of fan base. Look at Pete Rose. He was in MLB for years and was adored by millions. He hit 300 lifetime, has a few World Series under his belt, and scads of MVPs. Unless you went to Virginia Tech, you could care less who Michael Vick was. He won what? He did what? Quick. How many Pro-Bowls has he gone to? How many times in his 6 years did he get his team into the playoffs? How’d he do in the one NFC Championship game he played in? What is his lifetime rating? See what I mean? He’s mediocre at best. He has minimal upside and now, a whole lotta downside. And the Falcons agree with me.
Vick is toast, the main reason being that he is a mediocre talent. He hasn’t done anything well enough to build any kind of fan base. Look at Pete Rose. He was in MLB for years and was adored by millions. He hit 300 lifetime, has a few World Series under his belt, and scads of MVPs. Unless you went to Virginia Tech, you could care less who Michael Vick was. He won what? He did what? Quick. How many Pro-Bowls has he gone to? How many times in his 6 years did he get his team into the playoffs? How’d he do in the one NFC Championship game he played in? What is his lifetime rating? See what I mean? He’s mediocre at best. He has minimal upside and now, a whole lotta downside. And the Falcons agree with me.
Barnes/Donald:
On the antitrust issue it looks like we probably need a Supreme Court decison on. I see at least one case where an appeals court found an exemption form collusive actions by the NFL. I have no problems with individual clubs enforcing their rules – that players obviously agree to, but since a player is employed by a team and not by the league, a ban obviously raises antitrust concerns. You wnat ot enlighten us on the law?
I concede I`m not an expert on the corrupting influence of gambling, but even taking your word for it, this could be handled strictly on a consensual/contractual basis beteween the players and clubs (and clubs and league). There`s still no justification for any law, and certainly not a federal one. Private parties are perfectly capable of working out their own relationships, without have state or federal babysitters, in the form of opportunistic prosecutors, interested first mainly in their own careers, but then also helping to expand government or whatever special interest has the greatest influence.
TT:
As a)it’s not the subject of this thread and b)I’m no expert, I would only note the following:
“Lockout” is a term of art in labor law, and is the employer’s rough counter-equivalent to a bargaining unit’s right to strike; one of many reasons not to introduce that notion into the Vick situation.
There is a long history of players’ individual and collective relations with their clubs and the league (leagues if you look pre-merger), including litigation. To oversimplify, I believe one will find that players’ rights, (and those of the league and its members), depended heavily upon whether the players sought to be recognized as a certified bargaining unit or not.
I believe the NFL and the players association are currently governed by a collective bargaining agreement, which is where I’d look first for the “rules” that would cover a Vick ban.
I’d like to piss on his leg.
I’d like to piss on his leg.
“The gambling stuff is all a canard. Vick`s not gambling on NFL games; if at all, he`s gambling on DOGS.”
You can’t legally bet on illegal activities like dog fights. There is no comparison between his participation in gambling on the illegal dog fights and any legal gambling he may have done, like buying a lotto ticket, so this is not a canard. It’s another illegal activity on his part and it violates his contract. The NFL contracts prohibits the players from participating in illegal gambling activities, no matter what form that illegal gambling takes. This is what got him indefinitely suspended from the NFL. I don’t think he’ll ever return.
Ray, it`s obvious that gambling on dog is illegal, and presuming that Vick`s contract prohibits illegal gambling then he deserves to lose his job – fro
Ray, it`s obvious that gambling on dog is illegal, and presuming that Vick`s contract prohibits illegal gambling then he deserves to lose his job – from sheer stupidity. The point is why is gambling on dogs illegal? Why should our governments have monopolies on what`s legal to gamble on?
There used to be a paternalist argument, that we wanted the government to protect us from out own stupid activities, but now gambling has obviously turned into that state not protecting US, but ITS REVENUES.
I guess no one particularly cared about the absurdity that dog fighting is nopw a federal crime, despite there being sufficient state laws. The lack of interest is not a good sign.
If no one feels strongly, why don`t we just get rid of our state governments, and rid ourselves of an unnecessary layer of laws and politicians?
Vick’s career is toast. He never accomplished much in the NFL to begin with, so what NFL team would be willing to put up with all his baggage (not just his past, but the bad publicity, protests, etc. that would inevitably follow Vick wherever he goes – not to mention whatever additional baggage he picks up while in prison) just to give some washed-up ex-con loser a second chance?
TokyoTom: The reason the Feds got involved with this dogfighting ring is that it crossed state lines, not because state laws were insufficient (indeed, a prosecutor in one of those states – SoCar, IIRC – recently voiced the possibility of state charges on top of the federal ones). You may recall that last year the Feds also busted an illegal NFL betting ring involving NHL coach Rick Tocchet. Again, that was an interstate case, which is why the Feds got involved.
In any event, sports leagues are responsible for the integrity of their own sports, and therefore I have no problem with them adopting whatever gambling policies they see fit. (Interestingly, the NHL has said and done next to nothing about the Tocchet case, probably precisely because it was NFL football and not NHL hockey that was being bet upon.)