A Record Time For A Reversal

The charges of flip-flopping get leveled too often in politics, and usually in the wrong context. John Kerry lived with the accusation after attempting to explain a reversal on a Iraq war supplemental by saying, “I was for the $87 billion before I was against it.” People extended it for use whenever a politician changed his mind on any policy or any time frame, even over a period of years and even when moving in a preferred direction, as with Mitt Romney.
However, the monicker definitely applies when the reversal happens within the space of two minutes, especially when it gets televised for the nation to see:

McKinney said Clinton grew testy when pressed on whether she agrees with a proposal her home state governor has to give driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants. She first expressed support for the idea. But when Dodd objected, Clinton grew defensive and said she wasn’t saying it should be done, although she recognizes why the governor is trying to do it even though she doesn’t think it’s “the best thing for any governor to do.”
Edwards pounced. “Unless I missed something, Senator Clinton said two different things in the course of about two minutes,” he said. “America is looking for a president who will say the same thing, who will be consistent, who will be straight with them.”
Obama piled on. “I can’t tell whether she was for it or against it,” he said. He said he supports the idea.

Hillary Clinton cannot have thought that the policy would go unremarked during the debate. In New York, it has created a firestorm of controversy for Governor Eliot Spitzer, who has seen his approval ratings plunge in the first months of his term of office, thanks to tone-deaf maneuverings such as this. With immigration policy on the forefront of both political parties this year — and with MSNBC so desperate for new material that they started asking about UFOs (see below) — Hillary should have prepared an answer for this question.
Clearly, she did not. And just as clearly, the result left her looking shifty, pandering, and unsure of herself. It also brought out her public personality problems — showing her to be cranky and rather unlikable when on stage. Worse yet, it made her look indecisive, a quality no voter wants in a President, and the same quality that made Kerry such a lousy candidate.
That wasn’t the only issue to highlight all of those problems. The other Democrats scolded Clinton for running on her “experience” as First Lady, but keeping her papers sealed from that period. She told the audience that she didn’t make that decision, but failed to mention that her husband had made the request to keep them sealed until 2012.
The immigration answer will serve as the centerpiece for the Republican campaign against Hillary, assuming she wins the nomination. It will get as much play as the $87 billion mistake Kerry made, and not just for the flip-flop record Hillary set. Spitzer has over two-thirds of New York angry over the drivers-license policy. How does Hillary think that will play throughout the rest of the nation?
UPDATE: I should have known that Allahpundit at Hot Air would have the video (via Michelle Malkin). This is actually worse than it appears:

A few important points arise from this explanation. First, she tries mightily to blame George Bush for not accomplishing immigration reform as an excuse for Spitzer’s efforts to issue drivers’ licenses to illegals. George Bush, you will remember, was on Hillary’s side on immigration reform — so she has set up a completely false history as a way to evade her bad answer. Not only that, but Hillary blithely endorses a new system in New York that has three different classes of drivers licenses: one gets you on an airplane, another is a “regular” drivers license, and another ID’s illegal immigrants.
If New York can do the latter, why can’t they report illegals to ICE? No one apparently thought to ask Hillary (or Spitzer) that question. At all.
Chris Dodd had the best moment of his campaign on this response. He flatly told Hillary that a license is a privilege, and while he had a different opinion on health care, he thought it wrong for government to issue drivers licenses to people in the country illegally. Hillary then ignored the First Rule of Holes by asking Dodd what he’d do if he was hit by an illegal without a drivers license. Time did not allow the proper response — would that make him any more or less injured?
If the argument for the licenses is that illegals will drive anyway, well, so will the impaired, the alcoholics, the underage, and so on. Why not just issue licenses to everyone and never suspend or cancel them? After all, the enormous bureaucracy handing out three flavors of licenses has to have something to do, right?
This was a disastrous answer from Hillary. She can expect to live with this YouTube for the next year.

69 thoughts on “A Record Time For A Reversal”

  1. Clinton’s Foes Pillory Hillary At Democratic Debate (UPDATED)

    It was crystal clear at tonight’s debate who the perceived front-runner was for the 2008 Democratic party Presidential nomination.
    They ganged up on her:
    With just over two months until the first primary contest, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton&#8217…

  2. Clinton’s Foes Pillory Hillary At Democratic Debate (UPDATED)

    It was crystal clear at tonight’s debate who the perceived front-runner was for the 2008 Democratic party Presidential nomination.
    They ganged up on her:
    With just over two months until the first primary contest, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton&#8217…

  3. If Hillary is smart, she’ll say something like”
    “Governor Spitzer is in a difficult position trying to deal with the millions of illegal aliens attracted to NY after Rudy Guiliani declared New York City to be a sanctuary city for so many years.”

  4. Cute Teresa, but wrong.
    She running for President of the United States, not Complainer in Chief. These would be her problems if she won, and she’s showing she’s not ready to deal with them.
    Basically, what this shows is how much she expects cover from the press. The fact that she didn’t prepare for this questions means she was sure no one would ask it to her. That, and her reaction when cornered on it, are the scariest things about this episode.
    Besides, if you ask her about sanctuary cities, I bet she’s been on both sides of that one as well, depending on who she is talking to.

  5. Hillary Clinton is a real problem for the Democrats; as she is no Bill Clinton. With truck loads of “skeleton’s in the closet”, an evil mean streak lying just underneath the surface of her skin, this woman will be exposed for all to see.
    I can’t wait for someone to question her about her ties to George Soros; her help with creating Soros front groups such as “Media Matters”. Let her dodge that probe.

  6. This is truly a gift to the Republican Nominee for President. I was for driver’s licenses to illegal aliens before I was against it before I was for it. A record time for flip flopping. And her statement that there are millions of illegals in New York that she would give driver’s licenses to is astonishing both for the act of granting that privilege but also for the national security implications of that statement. It’s too bad that Russert didn’t follow up with, “Isn’t the real agenda of the dem party in New York State with respect to driver’s licenses to illegals, not road safety, but ensuring that they can be registered as democratic voters in NYS and federal elections thereby assuring an insurmountable democrat majority for the next thirty years?”

  7. Rudy Giuliani didn’t declare NYC to be a sanctuary city, that happened under his predecessor dem mayor Ed Koch in 1989 and the dem city council. Even if the Mayor had opposed the policy, given the extreme left wing nature of the NYC Council, it would have been impossible for any Mayor to reverse that ill begotten policy.

  8. Spitzer’s “plunging” approval is still supposedly at 52%, which is a majority and more than any national pol of which I can think. Sure it’s down from 70%, but 52% is hardly a devastating number.
    (http://www.troyrecord.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18929422&BRD=1170&PAG=461&dept_id=7018&rfi=6)
    And eaglewings, only citizens can vote. Having a driver’s license doesn’t make you eligible to vote. Don’t be silly. Just argue the actual debate, not some crazy fantasy demon of a few people.

  9. Wrong eaglewings. Try reading this on Guiliani and Sanctuary Cities:
    “Immigration politics have similarly harmed New York. Former mayor Rudolph Giuliani sued all the way up to the Supreme Court to defend the city’s sanctuary policy against a 1996 federal law decreeing that cities could not prohibit their employees from cooperating with the INS. Oh yeah? said Giuliani; just watch me. The INS, he claimed, with what turned out to be grotesque irony, only aims to “terrorize people.” Though he lost in court, he remained defiant to the end. On September 5, 2001, his handpicked charter-revision committee ruled that New York could still require that its employees keep immigration information confidential to preserve trust between immigrants and government. Six days later, several visa-overstayers participated in the most devastating attack on the city and the country in history.” (http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html)
    If Republicans nominate Rudy, they can not touch Hillary on illegal immigration.

  10. “After all, the enormous bureaucracy handing out three flavors of licenses has to have something to do, right?”
    The democratic party, (and especailly Hillary and Bill), for a long time have grasped the “Baskin-Robbins” meantality when it comes to standing firm on any principal. The “flavor of the month” depends on the same premise Bill Clinton used for 8 years; “wet finger, raise into thin air, check latest poll, choose most popular statement.”
    Hillary’s flip-flop on illegal license’s issued in NY shows her inability to take a stand. When any of the democratic “candidates” were confronted with a question that required a COMMITMENT, they used the “this is GW’s failed policies” mantra.
    Russert also “softballed” most of the questions related to national security, while the answers were the typical “I have a plan” (in my head).
    Teresa’s “yeah, but some one else did it first” shows us exactly what to expect from a party that can’t find the word COMMITMENT in their vocabulary.

  11. I think in all seriousness that this is the moment that Hillary just lost any conceivable chance to be President. Frankly, it took her long enough, but she finally turned in the disastrous answer we all knew she was truly capable of making.
    I watched part of the debate last night and saw this exchange live…I couldn’t stop laughing. Hillary was dreadful.
    The Democrats have to know that at this point there’s no way Hillary can win now. None. If she is nominated, the Democrats lose.
    And they will nominate her anyway. Pay attention ladies and gentlemen, this moment is the end of the Democratic party. The nutroots will fracture the party, Hillary will go down in flames, and every single Democrat running for any national office is scrambling to come up with a response to this question.
    Immigration and national security will forever be linked by this moment, the worst issues the Democrats could possibly run on. The entire Presidential race just became reframed on the GOP’s terms.
    Thank you Hillary. You just put another Republican in the White House. I think it’s time for a small celebration.
    Good riddance.

  12. With Hillary it’s all process coupled with the fact that she has no core beliefs. Dodd at least has a clue and is a thoughtful politician (he’s still wrong most of the time) capable of forming a logical answer.
    Hillary’s pollster is going to catch hell for not telling her what to think and say.

  13. “And eaglewings, only citizens can vote. Having a driver’s license doesn’t make you eligible to vote. Don’t be silly. Just argue the actual debate, not some crazy fantasy demon of a few people.”
    davejoch,
    If you don’t think this is a legitimate arguement for the registering of illegals, I’ve got some steel to sell ya that fire won’t melt. What is “silly” is to deny that this is NOT part of the agenda to get a voting block registered as democrats. The 9/11 Truther’s would be proud of your stand on this.

  14. Just to correct a small error. The Captain’s got the three types of licenses slightly wrong.
    One will be for illegal immigrants or anyone else who can’t prove legal residency.
    The second will be a regular drivers license, as currently issued, the will pass muster for boarding planes and all other federal issues.
    The third will be a special license for NY residents near the Canadian border that will effectively function as a passport at the NY-Canada crossings.

  15. Hillary’s campaign is already saying that moderator Tim Russert was “unfair.” Don’t be mean to the girl.
    A real woman wouldn’t say that. It’s an insult to real women everywhere, and further proof Mrs. Clinton is unfit to be President of the United States.

  16. You’re right, Ed, it has potential to be a huge general election moment- not a big Dem primary moment. Given that most of the Dems are aligned on this issue, there’s little room for separation and distinguishment (Dodd managed it a bit). Not so come the general election time, although Master Rudy may not be in much of a position to exploit it.

  17. Just an obvious observation that needs to be reiterated occasionally: YouTube is instant accountability. The Lincoln-Douglas days of regional flip-flopping and duplicity have been creamed by TV, the Internet, bloggers and YouTube. Pols can’t play both sides against the middle anymore. This is a good thing.

  18. Under NY state election law, a person registering to vote must provide only a Social Security number or a valid state driver’s license as proof of identification.

  19. And just as clearly, the result left her looking shifty, pandering, and unsure of herself. It also brought out her public personality problems — showing her to be cranky and rather unlikable when on stage.
    Exactly why I think she won’t win in the end. She’s an arrogant, shrill harpy who’s going to be easy to set off, and the gloves haven’t even really truly come off yet for the battle.

  20. Jeff says, “Hillary’s campaign is already saying that moderator Tim Russert was “unfair.” Don’t be mean to the girl.”
    ——————-
    Do you have any link to that? I saw it on Drudge, but — surprise, surprise — there was no link to any story supporting this statement.

  21. Ah, you’re right, Ed. We’re being too hard on old Mitt. He thought through how his flip-flops would affect him in a Presidential race and took care of them early on. Let’s give him a pass.

  22. Is this Hillary’s Dean Scream moment?
    Let’s hope so. If there’s a possibility that we might have a Democrat President, as much as I despise Edwards and feel Obama is completely unqualified, I’d rather have either of them as President than the Clinton cabal.
    Democrats, do yourself a favor. Do not nominate this corrupt and unqualified woman.

  23. Obviously this is by definition an anti Hillary site. So it’s no surprise that a lot of the posters here are leaping with joy at her performance last night with some predicting she is finished etc. etc. You have to wonder what world these folks live in. This was a debate on the third rated cable channel watched by probably about two million political junkies, most of them democrats. During the whole evening Clinton was under attack from just about everyone including Russert who was supposed to be a neutral moderator and was very close to the line if not over it. It looked like piling on. Despite this she handled herself very well and as far as could see only really fluffed the driving license question which let’s be real here is not exactly on everyone’s list of top election issues. Obama didn’t lay a glove on her, Edwards looked a bit desperate but probaby gained a point or two so now he’s at 17%, and most of the others barely broke through with the possible exceptions of Biden and Kucinich, the latter because he’s loony. In short the paradigm did not change one little bit. In fact Hillary probably did herself a bit of good judging by the reaction from a couple of friend who watched with me. Our verdict: she looked like the realist, they looked like idealists or silly. The paradigm did not shift last night.

  24. Clinton’s campaign strategy is to not even mention the words “illegal immigration” ……… let alone “illegal aliens”.
    For that matter ………… there are very few Democrat Party or Republic Party candidates who want to address it.
    All are in denial.

  25. Lightwave says, “Immigration and national security will forever be linked by this moment, the worst issues the Democrats could possibly run on. The entire Presidential race just became reframed on the GOP’s terms.

    ————————–
    Hold on for a minute and let’s look at the R’s on this subject:
    Rudy — sued to keep NYC a sanctuary city, criticized welfare reform because it kept illegals from getting welfare
    McCain & Huckabee — supported Bush’s amnesty plan for illegals
    Romney — who the heck knows where he is this week. Has used illegals to take care of his lawn. My guess is that a thorough investigation of all his various businesses will reveal use of illegals.
    And let’s not even mention all the chamber of commerce/small business owner Republicans who want to keep illegal immigrants coming to fill jobs.
    So, please, please explain to me again how immigration will be a winning issue for Republicans? Seems to me they will have to engage in some pretty big flip-flops of their own to make that work.

  26. Teresa,
    You used a discredited disqualifier for Mitt… one which few Americans will consider legitimate. None of us are thrilled with the idea that we could be held responsible for the legal status of employees of a company whose services we purchase.
    You also failed to mention Fred Thompson while mentioning McCain and Huck. What’s up?

  27. Says Lightwave, exuberantly, “Thank you Hillary. You just put another Republican in the White House. I think it’s time for a small celebration.”
    I sure hope you’re right, but I’m not ready to count that chicken yet. John is right: this might have been a lot of fun for us on the right, but it was on MS-NBC, months before any primaries.
    The Clinton campaign machine is formidable, and Mrs. Clinton’s opponents are remarkably weak. The fatuous and phony John Edwards is not going to get the nomination, and neither is the already-tiresome Barack Osama—er, Obama. Mrs. Clinton is the Bob Dole of 2008; the nomination is hers.
    We have to hope the Republicans can put an articulate, forthright, principled candidate up against her. Then not even the Clinton spin and personal-destruction machine will save the Missus.
    Who might that be? That’s the question. I wish Duncan Hunter could show more spark; he’s the truest conservative in the race. But he’s a stiff on TV. Fred Thompson showed some promise in his initial interview with Chris Wallace, but has flopped like a wet noodle since. However, I think any of Rudy, Mitt, or John could show Mrs. Clinton up, one on one, especially if she can be trapped again without a script, like last night.
    /Mr Lynn

  28. Hillary Clinton Messed Up in Democrat Debate

    Hillary Clinton, the Democrat candidate of inevitability, was a mess last night when it came to illegal immigration. Here’s one really smart conservative guy who doesn’t think that she won that debate. UPDATE: Be sure to read Ed Morrissey’s post, where…

  29. Immolate says “You also failed to mention Fred Thompson while mentioning McCain and Huck. What’s up?”
    ———————–
    You’re right. Thompson maybe could challenge Hillary on this credibly. But it doesn’t look like he is likely to be the R nominee at this point. At least not where I am sitting. If he is smart, maybe he could use this to raise his game a bit and seperate himself from his opponents.
    As far as Romney goes, he also apparently supports an amnesty program:
    “I don’t believe in rounding up 11 million people and forcing them at gunpoint from our country,” Romney said. “With these 11 million people, let’s have them registered, know who they are. Those who’ve been arrested or convicted of crimes shouldn’t be here; those that are here paying taxes and not taking government benefits should begin a process towards application for citizenship, as they would from their home country.” (http://www.alipac.us/article-print-1737.html)
    Of course, that quote was from 2004 so who knows what he thinks now.

  30. Fred is going to be the Rep nominee. Then he’s going to win the general election. The nutroots will split the Dem party, and no one will care who they nominate in 2012.
    Bloomberg is running. Nader may run. The Green party seems set to nominate Cynthia McKinney. So the liberal vote could be split four ways, and a large number of people polled keep saying they would never vote for Hillary. She may not even get second place! (And I’ve been saying that since December 2000.)

  31. The immigration answer will serve as the centerpiece for the Republican campaign against Hillary, assuming she wins the nomination.
    Unlikely, since many of the leading Republicans are as bad or worse on immigration as she is. It’d impossible to imagine Giuliani or McCain taking her to task for NY’s love affair with illegals, without drawing gales of laughter.

  32. Al in St. Louis — Don’t you think it is just as plausible that Ron Paul also runs a third party race and that if Rudy gets the nod that social conservatives run their own candidate? I can more easily see the R party split into factions than I can the D’s. The “net roots” have one main desire: to win. And, if that means voting for Hillary, that is what they will do. Why do you think she is running away with the nomination now?

  33. every time I read a teresa post I am reminded that not just the national Dems are liars, so are their rank and file. Easy to see why Republican crooks plead out and Dem crooks just keep running and winning in their Democrtaic gerrymandered districts ans some get promoted to leadership.
    If Rudy was smarter than Hillary he would say, “I only implemented NYC law as set down to me by the Democratic leaders of NYC.” To say Rudy began this policy is a lie.
    heres the relevant order by Ed Koch (D)—
    New York City’s policy on the NYPD’s disclosure of immigration information to the INS. New York’s Executive Order, or E.O. 124, barred line officers from communicating directly with the INS about criminal aliens. That executive order was issued by Mayor Ed Koch in 1989.
    Rudy didn’t declare anything, he followed Mayors Koch, Dinkins and the City Council’s policy (a City Council controlled 48-3 Dem-Republican I might add). A 30 second check found the Executive Order and its number, the year issued and who issued it. This is why its becoming impossible to have any discussions with Dems, they lie and think they can get away with it.
    And to say Rudy was weak on welfare reform requires a willing suspension of disbelief, which Dems have a load of. Under Rudy’s plan, welfare rolls dropped from over 500,000 in 1993 (when he took ofice in ’94) to approximately 200,000 at the end of ’01, when he left. He made it one of the strictest systems to obtain welfare, requiring a work participation requirement. Rudy can only hope the Dem makes that an issue.
    Hillary Clinton will be the Dem nominee. And like the Dems in FL when Katherine Harris won the primary to run for the Senate as a Republican, the opposing party will rejoice.

  34. God I hate agreeing with leftists….this won’t mean a damn thing in hillary’s campaign, and you folks should know better by now….I mean, she hired sandy berger!!! You remember him….no one cares….she’s taking chinese funny money….again!!! No one cares….compared to these two examples, and a dozen others that can be named from a simple google search, this was nothing. We’re gonna have a hell of a time competing against someone who cares nothing for the law and gets away with it every time (not VIRTUALLY every time).

  35. If Rudy was smarter than Hillary he would say, “I only implemented NYC law as set down to me by the Democratic leaders of NYC.” To say Rudy began this policy is a lie.
    He might be smart to say this, but he’d be lying.
    It’s true that the policy began before Giuliani. It is also true that he continued it and issues similar rules himself. And it is a fact that he sued the Federal government when they threatened to stop NY from doing this. What is more, when he lost in court, he reissued the sanctuary city policy with a few tweaks to get around the law.
    A few links for you.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m0jgZsaT98
    http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1886
    “When Congress enacted immigration reform laws that forbade local governments from barring employees from cooperating with the INS, Mayor Rudy Giuliani filed suit against the feds in 1997. He was rebuffed by two lower courts, which ruled that the sanctuary order amounted to special treatment for illegal aliens and were nothing more than an unlawful effort to flaunt federal enforcement efforts against illegal aliens. In January 2000, the Supreme Court rejected his appeal, but Giuliani vowed to ignore the law.”

  36. It’s remakable that Mr Morrissey mentions a story about illegals in New York and does not note Rudy Giuliani’s position on illegal immigration. (In favor of it.)
    If Rudy was smarter than Hillary he would say, “I only implemented NYC law as set down to me by the Democratic leaders of NYC.” To say Rudy began this policy is a lie.
    He might be smart to say this, but he’d be lying.
    It’s true that the policy began before Giuliani. It is also true that he continued it and issues similar rules himself. And it is a fact that he sued the Federal government when they threatened to stop NY from doing this. What is more, when he lost in court, he reissued the sanctuary city policy with a few tweaks to get around the law.
    A few links for you.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m0jgZsaT98
    http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1886
    “When Congress enacted immigration reform laws that forbade local governments from barring employees from cooperating with the INS, Mayor Rudy Giuliani filed suit against the feds in 1997. He was rebuffed by two lower courts, which ruled that the sanctuary order amounted to special treatment for illegal aliens and were nothing more than an unlawful effort to flaunt federal enforcement efforts against illegal aliens. In January 2000, the Supreme Court rejected his appeal, but Giuliani vowed to ignore the law.”

  37. Hillary is running away with the nomination because she has no serious contenders. (And I don’t think that’s an accident.) Ron Paul already ran as the Libertarian party’s nominee. He and McCain can try to run as far as I’m concerned, the more the merrier. What I believe will unite a significant plurality of voters is the need to assure themselves that Hillary does not become the president. That leaves them two options, vote for the Rep nominee or take a chance on letting Hillary win.
    When the dust settles, the netroots (and everyone else) will blame the Clinton machine for the Dem loss. The only thing I don’t have figured out is which party will become the new second party. I don’t think it will be the Greens or the Libertarians, so I expect a charismatic former Dem to start a new party.

  38. What was Hillary’s executive policy regarding immigration?
    Oh yes, seems she has NO EXECUTIVE EXPERIENCE. None whatsoever.
    Will she get a big fat TRAINEE button to stick on her ugly pantsuit when she first steps into the Oval Office?
    And who will be the trainer? Bill? She better line up behind the other interns. Far behind. Miles. She’ll be back in Arkansas before she knows it. Won’t see DC for years.
    Rodham here is completely unqualified to be President and it’s just one more shame in a long line of Democrat disgraces, to be foisting this absolutely worthless woman on the American people.

  39. Teresa dreams Ron Paul will run in the general election to cinch the coronation that Mrs. Clinton could never achieve on her own merit.
    I say, if Ron Paul’s going to put on the tights and play the Pied Piper, he’s gonna do it on the democrat side of town; he’s a big man with the 9-11 Truthers and the cut & run crowd, you know.

  40. Not Ready For Prime Time: Hillary Supports Drivers Licenses For Illegal Aliens, Then Doesn’t, Then Blames Bush.

     
    Mrs. Bill Clinton caught flat footed in the Democrat Party candidates debate last night.
    Hillary supports Eliot Spitzer’s plan for driver’s licenses for illegal aliens then doesn’t then after a fashion blames the Bush administration.
    This…

  41. kingronjo “…every time I read a teresa post I am reminded that not just the national Dems are liars, so are their rank and file.”
    ———————
    And every time I read a Kingronjo post, I realize that some Republicans are completely ignorant.
    Try just doing a basic google search on Rudy and ilegal immigration, Kingronjo. You’ll realize exactly how wrong you are. Rudy SUED the federal government to allow illegals to collect welfare checks. He wholeheartedly supported NYC being a sanctuary city.
    “Under his control, the New York City Corp. lost a lawsuit against the federal government over Republican-crafted welfare reform legislation that required state and local authorities to report illegal aliens to the Immigration and Naturalization Service.
    The law stipulated that only citizens and certain legal immigrants were to receive food stamps and imposed financial penalties on states that did not verify the legal status of those applying for the stamps…
    In June 1994, Giuliani told reporters,
    If you come here and you work hard and you happen to be in an undocumented status, you’re one of the people who we want in this city. You’re somebody that we want to protect….” (http://fredfile.fred08.com/blog/2007/rudy-giulianis-illegal-immigration-record/)

  42. Hillary has already made many mistakes which can be used against her-I quit writing them down when I had 16 of them. Of course, this can and should be used but I think the fact that she is counting on the female vote to make her the first female president is where a lot of the emphasis should be put…her record with bashing and dashing the women who caught the eye of her errant husband should be brought to the fore for it shows her basic contempt of women in general. This is not about sex but is about women, IMO. Look at what happened to NOW under her husband’s term of office. Look at the way she talks to people and the language she uses. Look at the way she treats her help…they are the “little” people she claims to care about. She basically only cares for the strong woman with many of the aggressive and masculine traits of the lesbian female, IMO.

  43. The Republicans have a lot of candidates because we are trying to choose.
    The Dems have a lot of candidates who are cannon fodder to keep answer time short in the massive number of debates so Hillary can dodge and weave and just stick to soundbite moments. There is no serious opposition to her among the balance of the field.
    George Soros had his big money Dem pow wow in DC last weekend for battle planning sessions.
    What their game plan is will be the real fight down the road.

  44. Having a driver’s license doesn’t make you eligible to vote.
    Really? have you ever heard of Motor Voter Act? Here’s a relevant section from that page (emphasis mine):
    Section 5 of the Act requires states to provide individuals with the opportunity to register to vote at the same time that they apply for a driver’s license or seek to renew a driver’s license, and requires the State to forward the completed application to the appropriate state of local election official.
    In New York, you merely have to provide a signed affadavit stating that you’re eligible to vote. No actual proof – a green card, for instance – needed.

  45. The fact that Hillary is even in the race at this point let alone the front runner is an indication that like all other Clintonian triagulation efforts her campaign will flourish and she will be elected with at least 55% of the vote.
    I can’t imagine any other candidate, Republican or Democrat who would remain a viable candiate after the Norman Hsu affair.

  46. Teresa see “Real Clear Politics blog” 3 hours ago titled “Shooting the moderator?”. Britney Spears says her judge is mean also-Do your think the public will buy either whine?

  47. What the Clintoon Dims can’t handle is anyone questioning the veracity of their claims. Hence political correctness infecting college campuses (Columbia, Emory etc.) What the Clintoon true believers bank on is nobody asking challenging questions of their fearful leader.
    While a few flustered DNC responses seen above may be entertaining the blaming of Rudy or Thompson or desperately even DNC fellow-traveler Tim Russert for She-who-must-not-be-named’s obvious debate gaffes reveals the flaw in the plan.
    Central to Clintoon’s political success is no challenging questions being allowed, no tough debate or interview questions permitted, a “you can’t pick on the girl” defense being floated the instant Lazio stepped too close, and no hack news (e.g. NY Times) stories to be published whenever her highness steps in it. Her entire image depends upon presstitutes willing to carry the water for her and to repackage her mistakes as purported strengths. The instant her cheesy marketing fails so does angry Hillary’s facade.
    The instant angry Hillary goes off script she’s revealed to be as shallow and two-faced as her husband albeit lacking Slick’s ability to con suckers convincingly. Slick was capable of lying independently whereas angry Hillary is a dependent liar. The instant her sycophant media sugar coating fails the perceptive citizen can see Red and I don’t mean the color.

  48. Typical Rodham Clinton — deflect, deflect, deflect. Method? Blame Bush! (Her handlers have determined that the witchy-laugh response did not poll well.)
    “Chris” had better watch his back for having challenged She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed. Ditto for Russert.
    If televised debates played their cards right, in order to build up the failing ratings of said media, the moderators would increase their questioning with follow-ups, with pointing out contradictions on record, with probing for more than the sound bite: Let us voters see what depth of thought and soundness of policy/position each candidate conveys.
    Then… pass the popcorn!
    BTW Ron Paul will splinter the nutroots of the Left away from the Dems. His appeal is not with the Republicans.

  49. Hey, I’ve flip-flopped. If you would have told me I’d grow so negative on Irak, you’d have surprised me.
    But I did.
    From where did this come?
    I’ve watched some of the republican debates. Except for Ron Paul, no one seems against the war.
    And, yes. Ron Paul isn’t the sanest man up there, on the stage. (But if you think about it. Ross Perot is not any more sane than that. And, he dropped a bucket load on top of Bush #41’s plans to get re-elected.)
    When people here say Hillary has negatives, didn’t Margaret Thatcher? You think, when she told Reagan to keep his spine stiff, that she was a pussy cat? (Okay. A pussy cat with attitude!)
    Hillary is KNOWN. Besides all the stuff people use to go after her; she’s still in the driver’s seat. Doesn’t mean she wins. But it doesn’t mean the seat gets “swiftly” up-ended, either.
    Favorites?
    It’s true. The republicans have lots of those.
    But what are the Americans in the mood to buy?
    Since I’m not the only person whose changed her mind, I look on others who are capable of re-evaluating trouble, as being realistic.
    They say, when you’re flying an airplane, you can get confused with what’s up. And, what’s down.
    JFK, Jr. Inexperienced. Actually crashed because of that phenomenon. And, pilots? Use their unstruments. And, then they just gotta believe. Because their intstruments run counter to their gut impressions.
    We’re still before the primaries. It’s as if the horses are on parade, prior to pulling into their gated positions.
    Can you bet, now, on what happens by the time February 6th rolls around. And, we know the results of contests that get held? February 5th is supposed to be a “monster” date. With a lot of states holding primaries …
    So by then? You’d know how the states, themselves, shape up. You do not need every one of them to win an election! Bad news, if you lose your own state, though. (Happened to Gore, in 2000. If he had carried Tennessee? Florida’s results would not have been in play.)
    What’s more exciting to watch? Close elections? Or blowouts?

  50. RD — the Real Clear Politics blog just links to Drudge. Who still has not provided a link or source for his comments. A lie twice removed is still a lie.

  51. Oh I certainly agree that the time to look at who the GOP nominee…and thanks to Hillary, President…will be.
    None of them are perfect. Hell, few of them are tolerable. But all the GOP hopefuls are still light years better than the throughly corrupt Hillary Clinton.

    The Clinton campaign machine is formidable, and Mrs. Clinton’s opponents are remarkably weak. The fatuous and phony John Edwards is not going to get the nomination, and neither is the already-tiresome Barack Osama—er, Obama. Mrs. Clinton is the Bob Dole of 2008; the nomination is hers.

    …says Mrlynn. While I agree 100%, that’s exactly why the Dems are now done in this country. They almost certainly will nominate Hillary, even though she lost the general election last night.
    That will be the weapon used against her by whomever is the GOP nominee. Hillary will get destroyed in a general election. The nutroots will howl and scream, and the coming schism will assure the Dems are done for years, if not decades. Her nomination will lead to a civil war in the Democratic Party.
    And in the meantime, great progress continues to be made in Iraq. Our strategy is working, the Dems will have nothing to run on in 2008, and the defeat will be close to total.
    And then this country can finally move on and get back to the business of winning in Iraq and dealing with Iran.

  52. This is so funny I may have to retract my statement from a few months ago. If the Dhimm’s had any brains they would make SURE Clinton is not the nominee. But they don’t use their hat rack for much else, so I reinterate…no matter who the R’s put up against Hitlery, this will be the largest defeat EVER in electoral history, hands down.
    Last night was the first time any of these buffoons started to put forth ANY EFFORT to show that she is unfit to lead or answer any serious questions. Even with Guiliani’s previous positions he would tear her to shreds in a debate. In the general election the Rep. candidate will (and should) go right for the jugular and ask if she’s having a problem with defining what ‘is’ is…That would be hysterical and EXACTLY what Rudy or Fred, serious lawyers with serious debate chops, BTW will make mincemeat out of her.
    These softballs are NOT going to help her in the general election.

  53. “Rudy or Fred, serious lawyers with serious debate chops, BTW will make mincemeat out of her.”
    The problem with Fred is that he doesn’t have a whole lot more experience than Hillary does.
    But Rudy does. Anything she says, he can say “When I was in an executive position when an issue similar to this came up, I did X, X, and X.”
    Her “experience” is all either theoretical or as a hanger on. She’s never been responsible or accountable for anything more than casting a party line vote in the Senate, something a chimpanzee can do. The only people she’s been in charge of are synchophant staffers.
    Hillary is like an academic who goes straight from undergrad to grad school, then onto the PhD. program, then hides in the university and think she knows everything.
    Even though she has no real world experience.

  54. What difference would it make if the hypothetical illegal alien (possessed of a proper NY State driver’s license) did hit Sen Dodd?
    Sen Dodd’s car would still be wrecked.
    The illegal alien would still be here illegally.
    The illegal alien would be uninsured and the illegal alien’s car would be unregistered. (Proof of insurance required for registration, not licensing).
    NY State Patrol still wouldn’t check illegal alien’s immigration status, assuming illegal alien didn’t flee on foot after the wreck.
    NY State Patrol would still be too busy tailing NY State Senate President Frank Bruno (R) on the orders of Gov. Spitzer to respond to traffic accident calls.
    OTOH…
    Illegal alien would now be a registered voter in the State of New York thanks to Motor Voter.
    –furious

  55. Madame Hillary, she of the Mao suit sometimes “softened” with a strand of pearls or in shades of feminine pink, continues to claim that her White House days substantiate her executive capabilities.
    Now, I’m not a fan of Dick Morris. In fact, I take his opinions with a grain of salt, BUT he describes two of Madame Hillary’s “delegated” tasks as “co-president” as fatal failures. The choice of Attorney General and the policy of Hillarycare were her duties. Even Hubby Bill rued his decision to allow his other half these powers.
    Former Bill Clinton speechwriter observes these tidbits among others:
    “Consider what her experience has been. She burst forth on the national stage with two tasks in her husband’s administration: The selection of the nation’s first female Attorney General and the design and adoption of a comprehensive program of health care reform.
    “Her efforts to designate an Attorney General hamstrung the new Administration for months as two nominees, in succession, had to withdraw their names from consideration. Finally, at the eleventh hour, she urged her husband to appoint Florida’s Janet Reno, a selection Bill Clinton would come to describe as ‘my worst mistake’. In the bargain, she suggested the appointment of Lani Guanier as head of the civil rights division, a job she was shortly forced to relinquish when her radical views became known, another embarrassment for the new Administration.
    “Her other selections for the Justice Department, the White House staff and the Treasury were her three law partners: Web Hubbell, Vince Foster, and William Kennedy, appointments which culminated in one imprisonment, one suicide, and one forced resignation.
    “Her other assignment, health care reform, collapsed in such a debacle that it cost her party control of both houses of Congress, a fate from which it took twelve years to recover.”
    No executive she.
    And her three law partners were not cronies to be rewarded?

  56. Teresa,
    The point is not whether Hillary supports amnesty or not as people pretty much know she does. The point is that she reversed her stance on the license issue during the debate and made herself look foolish. She made a rookie mistake by reversing herself then becoming angry during a debate, plain and simple. Can she recover from that mistake? Probably, but you can be sure that her opponents in the primaries will nail her for that, as well they should.

  57. Her “experience” is all either theoretical or as a hanger on. She’s never been responsible or accountable for anything more than casting a party line vote in the Senate, something a chimpanzee can do. The only people she’s been in charge of are synchophant staffers.
    Heck, she can’t even maintain any kind of control over her ersatz husband, much less an entire country!

  58. couldn’t have put it better myself furious. Sen. Dodd would have gone even higher if he said, that if the accident happened in a non sanctuary city he would immediately notify ICE so that this illegal alien could no longer endanger anyone else and that he/she would be deported pronto to his/her own home country where the then legal alien would be able to drive to his/her heart’s content.
    I notice also some of the posters here seem to have abandoned their love of principle concerning unfunded mandates, you know the Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution and recent SCOTUS caselaw that unless Congress funds local government concerning a mandate, the local gov’t can opt out. Did Rudy do anything not in keeping with those conservative principles?

  59. If her credentials are 8 years in the White House I am sure that there are many, many just as qualified as she-ushers, housekeepers, guards, cooks, secretaries, Chiefs of Staff and own and own and own. If riding herd on her husband is a qualification then the head of the Bimbo eruption team should qualify. In legal experience and success, I think John Edwards beats her. And who can name one bill that she has introduced that has become law that benefits women or the “little people”? In fact, what is her success in the Senate besides going along to get along?

  60. John Rodham said:
    “This was a debate on the third rated cable channel watched by probably about two million political junkies, most of them democrats.”
    I don’t know what the ratings were for last night’s debate, but I do know that a LOT of my Democrat friends and relatives, none of whom are “political junkies”, have been watching all of the Dem debates. And all of them watched last night, and all were shocked by her performance.

  61. Del Dolemonte, your point is well taken.
    From it, I gather that Hillary “lost support.” But where did it go? Not to Obama. Not to the “silk pony.” Richardson? He’s out to uncover UFO’s.
    Also, having watched some of the republican debates, I can tell ya, that people who watch undergo emotional “pangs.” But later on? Who bothers to remember?
    What was her lousy night about?
    Aren’t people all over the map growing fatigued with our government’s roles? Be it “LOST” at sea. Or in Irak; where I think Maliki has no love for American troops.
    It’s as if we’re sorting through stuff that is hidden in the bag. We can put our hands in. We can feel around. But other than that? What’s in the bag?
    Also, we’re only heading into primaries.
    No one’s course is gonna stabilize that at every turn at bat they’ll produce home runs. It’s up’s. And, down’s.
    And, so far? There’s so much “official” quiet out there … it’s hard to tell.
    One of Hillary’s advantages is that during her husband’s two terms, Americans felt confident. Many didn’t even hold his “embrace” of Monica Lewinsky against him. (If they did? The HOUSE impeachment would have worked. Didn’t.)
    Why is Hillary on the stage?
    AH. I think Dubya blew it.
    I think the opportunities to move forward are gone, now.
    And, we’re just waiting for him to produce his final act. (Which could be a fizzle stick. Or an attempt to kick compliance to the roadmap out the window.)
    While lots of people saw Israel “doing something.” Which she apologizes for on the “off chance” her jets flew … by total accident … over syria …
    While a “problem” got solved. Assad says now: NO PROBLEM. He doesn’t have nukes.
    Ain’t that the truth?
    While we’re in Irak. And, Baghdad Bob never got his own show.
    You think people expected so little?
    Price tag’s at $3-trillion so far.
    And, the Saud’s? Are making believe they weren’t pushing Bush. HA. HA. What would their apology sound like?
    Oh, by the way. We don’t know what happens in the future.
    But, if you twisted my arm? I’d say that if the Bonkeys got desperate; they might try impeaching Bush?
    Who knows? Mukasey is some sort of test.
    Why are they doing this, when ahead of time, the senators know the vote count?
    For all I know? Condi may not be able to “do” an event at Annapolis on November 26th? She’s not gonna do a thing, if the Saud’s don’t show up. And, if the arabs send her a bunch of second raters.
    Olmert? He just doesn’t want to be blamed for the cancellation.
    Who knew Dubya was digging a hole these deep? On January 20, 2009 he may find he’s dug himself in so deep, he walks out the other side. And, he’s in China. Nothing will surprise me.

  62. The Democrat Debate in Philly-Another Battle of the Boobs
    I caught the last half of the latest Democrat debate last night, and I guess I arrived just in time. Today, most pundits are saying that Hillary Clinton was a dismal flop. It seems that the lady finally got caught talking out of both sides of her mouth for all to see. When asked about her views on New York State giving driver’s licenses to illegal aliens, she first stated she was against it, then defended Governor Elliot Spitzer’s move since George Bush had failed to bring about immigration reform and we need to know who these people are. (Never mind that Bush wanted the immigration bill to pass, but Congress voted it down.)
    Hillary’s opponents, principally Chris Dodd, Barack Obama and John Edwards, pounced on her for her sidewinding response. It was the moment they had long been waiting for (the Got’cha moment, which Hillary acknowledged had come). She knew she was in trouble. Of course, anyone who has followed Hillary’s political career knows that pinning her down on a tough question is like catching a greased pig at the county fair. Those who plan to vote for her could probably care less if she was exposed as a phony. I thought it was great how Dodd in particular, nailed her on that one. It seems Dodd is the only one of the candidates who would deny licenses to illegal aliens. Well, Dodd, who is one of Teddy Kennedy’s drinking buddies, certainly should know who should not be behind the wheel of a car.
    Other than that, I guess the highlight of the evening was when Dennis Kucinich was outed as one who claims to have seen a UFO. Hello!!!! And this guy is running for president?!!?
    After the debate, I watched the MSNBC analysis hosted by Chris Matthews, who proceeded to rip into Hillary and Dennis on the above points. I guess Chris, a Democrat, is supporting someone other than Hillary or Kucinich. (Chris had his chance to editorialize on the war in Iraq when some loon stormed behind him with a banner yelling “Out of Iraq”. As the guy was getting the bum’s rush, Chris, nonplussed, stated that he agreed with the sentiment.)
    I also got a kick out of Chris’ interview with Rep Chaka Fattah (D-PA) and some beefy guy who Chris referred to as “The Boss of Philadelphia”. The guy sure looked the role-right out of central casting. He didn’t seem to appreciate the remark, giving me the eery feeling that Vinnie and Sluggo were going to break Matthews’ legs after the interview. Meanwhile, Fattah talked as if he had had a few highballs during the interview.
    Matthews also interviewed Bill Richardson (D-NM) and asked him about the Kucinich UFO thing. Of course, Richardson admitted that while he didn’t believe in UFOs, he had to support the UFO Museum in Roswell-sort of a Clintonesque answer.
    Kudos to Tim Russert for asking the right questions. Anyway, it doesn’t seem as if Obama and Edwards used the occasion to improve their standing with anyone. Of course, I am biased (being an independent conservative), but to me it was just another “Battle of the Boobs”.
    gary fouse
    fousesquawk

  63. I was for driver’s licenses to illegal aliens before I was against it before I was for it.
    I prefer “I was for driver’s licenses to illegal aliens while I was against it.”
    Anyone remember the definition of “doublethink”?

  64. The Hillary flip-flop

    I have always thought that Hillary Clinton is at least one pancake short of a stack. Whenever I observe her in political debates, it’s the same routine: she rattles off some platitudes by rote, and to the observer it’s crystal-clear

  65. Will al Qaeda members in the USA get their own cards under the Clinton/Spitzer plan ? Proper identification would clearly entitle them to Geneva Convention status that is currently denied.
    What about Hamas, Fatah, Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah ?
    For that matter will there be vanity cards for Sandinistas, Black Panthers, Tupamaros, Basque separatists, Viet Minh, Bosnians, Bohemians, Nihilists, Tamil Tigers, Ulster Unionists, Nazis, neo-Nazis, Dominionists, Communists, Boxers, Janjaweed, Fedayeen, Underground Railroaders, Vegans, Dead Heads, and Earth First-ers ?
    Since the comprehensive dhimmifacation package hasn’t been passed by the Congress, the states must step in and take up the matter on their own.

  66. Bozell Beats Up Media for Whitewashing Hillary

    There are few people in Washington, D.C., better at diagnosing media bias than Brent Bozell. As the longtime leader of the Media Research Center (and my former boss), Bozell has literally seen it all. The MRC’s extensive collection of TV newscast…

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