Why We Need The Fence, Once Again

In a war on terror where our enemies seek to infiltrate their way into our nation, why has Congress and the Bush administration failed to secure the border? The 9/11 Commission pointed out the problem three years ago, and despite two decades of promises, we have done little to resolve it. Texas’s homeland-security chief confirmed yesterday that the lax controls have allowed terrorists to enter through the southern border (via The Corner):

Texas’ top homeland security official said Wednesday that terrorists with ties to Hezbollah, Hamas and al-Qaida have been arrested crossing the Texas border with Mexico in recent years.
“Has there ever been anyone linked to terrorism arrested?” Texas Homeland Security Director Steve McCraw said in a speech to the North Texas Crime Commission. “Yes, there was.”
His remarks appear to be among the most specific on the topic of terrorism arrests along the Texas-Mexico border. Local and elected officials have alluded to this happening but have been short on details.

Reasonable men and women can disagree on what to do with the illegal aliens already here in the country. Most agree, though, that our borders and visa-management system remain stuck in a 9/10 mentality — and that we have allowed ourselves to remain unecessarily vulnerable to our enemies in the war on terror. We have known of this vulnerability for far too long, and our political class and both parties have failed the nation in resolving it.
And one of these days, we will pay a terrible price for it.
Where’s the fence? Where is the visa-management system that was due over two years ago? Where are Congress and the White House, Democrats and Republicans? Who is minding the store?

40 thoughts on “Why We Need The Fence, Once Again”

  1. Far be it from me to throw cold water on this story, but doesn’t it seem a tad unlikely this is actually true? Considering all the “code oranges” and arrests of various incompetants over the last few years that have been trotted out as terrorist threats, would it not have been big news if this was true? I can understand conservatives who say that Bush would have covered this up because he is in favor of immigration, but what about other elected officials in the heavily Republican state of Texas?
    I wouldn’t get too excited about this story just yet.

  2. Beyond the fence, we need to watch the crap that gets “selected” by our medical schools, no less!
    Glenn Reynolds posts a link to this, today:
    A 26-year-old Dearborn resident, Houssein Zorkot, was arraigned in 19th District Court Tuesday on several felony charges, including carrying a dangerous weapon with unlawful intent.
    Zorkot, a third-year medical student at Wayne State University, was allegedly armed with an AK-47 assault rifle and dressed in black clothing with camouflage paint covering his face when he was arrested Saturday in Hemlock Park.

  3. Stopping “all” traffic is almost as impossible as stopping the germs you breathe in, when you go to the mall.
    But one thing with the “fence” argument; is that it stops people from thinking about those well-paid terrorists, who not only “get in,” but have whole communities supporting them, too. And, if not? Local imams import this trash so they can show these buggers off to their nitwits. 5 times a day.
    I guess they want us head-banging, too?
    Ya know what I want? I want to make things simpler for the maids, gardeners, slaughter house workers, and fruit pickers. They’re not carrying AK-47’s. And, whatever threats they produce? Every single one of our neighborhoods has cops. I’d rather seeing us having the BIGGEST and BEST police services, across this nation. Tapping into taxpayer funds. Before the pork-stealing goes on; and we buy stationery fence, that gets counted again, and again. By DORKS who can’t even keep our Vietnam Memorial in DC clean of vandals.
    But we do need an ID system; nation-wide. And, we do need to advertising every stinking seat a foreigner can fill, and make it MANDITORY if you’re institution is going to take Federal Funds, to prove that an AMERICAN hasn’t been displaced, first.
    Let alone the freaks that get into college; whose only purpose is to do mischief.
    Once we have an affective and manditory ID system in place, then I’d break down the walls of academia (through the Supreme Court); or our crumby legislatures … And, I’d allow the police to do security checks even in dorms.
    We know from what happened at Virginia Tech, that there’s no real authority on college campuses, anywhere. Why should that remain?
    I hate being fooled.

  4. Our do-nothing congress rushes to enact all manner of legislation, but there is very little emphasis on enforcing it – unless it happens to be pork, then that money gets allocated immediately. The fence was approved, the money set aside and what, 120 miles have been completed? Where is our Homeland Security (oxymoron)? We need to stop the flow before we can put a plan in place to deal with all the illegals that are currently here.

  5. The Administration still refuses to respond to a frustrated populace. While law, money, and votes have paved the way for progress, Homeland Security and Bush refuse to act with appropriate diligence. Consider that the Dept. of Transportation has just expanded the program enabling the trucks from 100 Mexican companies to enter the American highway system, a consequence of NAFTA and an extension of the SPP.
    Congress, with bipartisan support, is in the process of denying the Administration’s program by denying funding for the endeavor, but Bush is threatening a veto. (FYI – John Cornyn (Sen-R) sides with Bush here. I do not know Kay Bailey Hutchison’s (Sen-R) position.) Remember that this is the same Homeland Security that lacks adequate port scanners, that has managers who have reportedly disabled available scanners because false alarms were slowing traffic, and that has been discovered to have instructed its personnel to lighten up on scanning protocols during high traffic because agribusiness has been complaining about their slowed deliveries. Recall also that Bush’s plan was officially signed into action within a day or two of that Mexican truck that carried explosives and went kablooey.
    Now, put it all together and we have a transnational highway system with drivers from a foreign land carrying cargo of questionable origin, content, and status being expedited through a processing system and into our neighborhoods or public facilities. And our government wants it so. And, adding insult to injury, American truckers/transporters lose jobs on top of that.
    Tell me we’re serious about national security. Pfft.
    And Teresa, I know that a bipartisan Texas legislation tried, overwhelmingly, to put more controls on the Trans-Texas Corridor to protect Texan citizens from eminent domain while their lands are being acquired for private enterprise, but Governor Perry (R) vetoed it. He is as open borders, if not moreso, than Bush was. He’ll offer empty platitudes like any good politician. Yes, I understand the topic of concern is security here, but eminent domain is a part of citizen security too.

  6. Once again Bush has put corporate America first before it’s citizens.
    We need the fence. We want the fence. We have the money for it.
    But Bush would rather make sure corporate America isn’t disturbed in the slightest. Or he’s busy destroying Unions but allowing unchecked Mexican trucks through our already porous borders.

  7. Captain,
    The fence alone will not do the trick, if you are “home free” just after crossing it. A total solution is needed, which would enforce deportations for the first time offenders and incarceration for repeat offenders. It should be closely followed by workable system of working visas for Mexicans and other nations.
    There are however three conditions for such a system to succeed: enforcement, enforcement and enforcement…

  8. Immigration reform is a joke, whether it’s Republicans or Democrats blathering about it. Here’s the truth: your representatives are not working to serve the American public. They’re working to serve the corporatist agenda. Large corporations do not want immigration reform, and lobby against it every day.
    If corporations face substantial penalties for breaking the law, they will quit hiring illegals. If there are no jobs for illegals, they will not come. Simple as that.
    I work in commercial construction, and everyday I see the farce that is “they do jobs Americans won’t do”. What a load. They’re doing jobs for $6.00/hour that Americans used to do for $15.00/hour (i.e. a living wage).
    Forget the fence. Enforce the law.

  9. So far, the little bits of fence that got built, have been pork projects.
    Easy to climb over.
    Easy to crawl under.
    And, easy to punch through.
    While the bad guys who are FUNDED can always find routes, across.
    Including those tunnels built from Mexico, to houses along the entire corridor of border states. In other words? CRAWLING THROUGH.
    For those that don’t buy a ticket to fly into any one of our airports. With out “lame duck” security systems. How so? Billions to watch ordinary citizens removing their shoes. Opening up their pocketbooks. Emptying all their pockets; just to fly from here to there.
    So, there’s any any eyeballs, really, on what’s coming in. You could test this theory by realizing how the drugs get “in.” When you know for a fact, the best is grown “outside.” So, how do they come in, huh?
    I’m actually worried about all the free access we give to terrorists.
    Maids in hotels? Uh-uh. Not terrorists.
    And, all those assorted jobs that people from Mexico have found can support them, here, PLUS, allow them to return money to their folks back home. A LOT.
    A national ID program, put into place. And, then with all our sundry police departments given access to FUNCTION; would probably put a dent in what the richest of the rich (the saudi’s and the drug cartels), can buy.
    The expression “did you pack your own luggage?” … came about because sometimes “innocent people” ended up carrying drugs through customs; who had no idea what was inside their luggage at all. Then? Our Drug Enforcement Officers through the book at these mules. Filling up their resumes with accolades. ANd, our jails with useless flotsam. While the real marketeers still do quite a trade!
    In other words? You’re not going to stop this stuff with froo-froo.

  10. >>Our do-nothing congress rushes to enact all manner of legislation, but there is very little emphasis on enforcing it – unless it happens to be pork, then that money gets allocated immediately.>>
    And yet they criticize the Iraqi parliment. Pot-Kettle-Black.
    Too many chiefs, not enough indians.

  11. Congress doesn’t do solutions, Congress does spending!
    Congress doesn’t resolve problems, they only talk about them!
    Congress doesn’t fix what is broken, they claim that to fix the problem it will be necessary to reelect incumbents without solutions!

  12. Ed, You seem to be suggesting a fence but only on the southern border. Given the known and documented Jihadi presence in Canada shouldn’t we fence that soft border first?

  13. Spent some time in DC a few weeks ago down in DC with a few people who are at or near the top of the food chain in DC. None talked about favoring the fence, all talked about a path to citizenship, or other disguised amnesty.
    And, all, it appeared, hired illegals or dubious-legality non-Americans as housekeepers, grounds keepers, day-care providers and the like. It was necessary for them, they explained, to maintain their lifestyle…can’t have Mommy wasting time taking care of cooking or cleaning when she had other things to do, and can’t do your own lawn, what would the neighbors think?
    A stereotype? Not at all. Just visit the communities of Potomac, MD or Great Falls, VA and look around for a few days. I stopped in at a grocery store in Herndon one Sunday morning after Church to pick up donuts and the paper, and had to force my way through hundreds of illegals or dubious legality day-workers who approached every car entering the parking lot seeking work for the day…cash only. Herndon is a mecca for illegals, and most of these do the domestic and yard work in high-end communities all around Northern Virginia. The shopping centers on the south end of Herndon looked like the huddled masses in Mumbai as I drove in.
    The point? Rather than hire Americans to do domestic work, or yard work, or do it their own d*mn selves, as most Americans do, it is easier and cheaper [much cheaper] to hire illagals. Cash only. No taxes, no SS, no workers comp, no paper trail. Towns such as Herndon are found all across America, mostly bordering far more swank communities. This is so wrong on so many levels. The have-it-all want-it-all generation couldn’t care less about resolving our open-borders problem. Lots of members of Congress and Congressional staffers, other government officials and lobbyists and such living in these high-end communities.
    The loss in income to legal immigrants and to low-income Americans is staggering. Wages in many areas are skewed sharply lower because of the influx and maintenance of large numbers of illegals. The costs of policing crime, the steady rise of MS-13 and other outfits, the deterioration of many many communities and loss of community services is a mere part of it all.
    Yes, we need a fence, and a patrolled fence, complete with lights, sensors and an array of law-enforcement waiting to round up, capture, and deport illegals coming across our borders.
    We also need to go after the millions of Americans who willingly, knowingly, hire illegals, be it domestic help, yard work, factory work, construction work, food processing or serving burgers at Mickie D’s. $50k per alien for each offense paid in cash within 24 hours would be a good start. Where are the Unions on this issue? Surprisingly behind the Democrat mantra that “the fence won’t work” and they wonder why union membership has declined so sharply…save for the service industries and government workers?
    Charging Mexico [and any other country of origin]$100,000 per illegal captured, detained and deported will go a long way to financing ICE and other immigration enforcement agencies, and make a dent in our deficit.
    Stepping up the process of legal immigration, enlarging consulate staffs abroad to handle the immigration paperwork, doing full and complete background checks on every applicant is a good start.
    But without an enforced border, why bother?
    To those who say a fence won’t work…are you more than willing to let anyone and their family move in to your family room and then take over the entire house, putting you out on the street in the process?
    This is essentially what has been happening for the past couple decades with illegals. Me? I earned my house. I worked for it. Only I get to chose who comes in to my house. That is my Right.
    A fence won’t stop all of them, but it will stop a significant number of them.
    Going after those who hire illegals, or offer sanctuary to illegals, is part of the solution as well.
    When millions of illegals get to jump the line every year in front of those who in some cases have waited for years to immigrate here LEGALLY…well, if I were a LEGAL immigrant trying to start a new life here in America, I’d be pretty p*ssed off.
    And well I should be.

  14. lexhamfox,
    Eventually the northern fence may not be required, since Canada is much more reasonable and more sensitive than Mexico to the economic and psychological effects of the tighter border measures.

  15. Ever try to hire a legal employee as, say, a nanny?
    Just after the little incident in Tienanmen Square, some visiting Chinese were allowed to remain in the US, and work. I hired a lady (a friend of a relative) as a live-in nanny. Because she was thinking about applying for a Green Card, I did everything above-board, and I mean *everything*. So, among other joys, I got to file a total of 19 tax returns one year (counting my family’s own). I made at least 6 personal visits to the California EDD (Employment Development Division) offices, and several to the IRS.
    Ask me if I understand why people want to pay cash, and hire illegals.

  16. Tossing off a post like the Captain did creates a completely predictable anti-Bush anti-immigrant reaction, just as predictable as tossing chum in the water and watching the fish go nuts.
    A few points, people:
    – the article talks about terrorists being arrested at the border … not terrorists making it across the border unscathed … yes, yes, yes, of course we don’t know about the ones who DID make it through, but we don’t need this post or the article that stimulated it to know that … so this is nothing new or unknown. Frankly, we should be shocked if we had never arrested a Jihadist trying to cross our border.
    – in case everybody forgot, the guys who attacked us on 9/11/01 entered the US legally, and of those a few overstayed their legal visas. None of those guys, by the way, were Mexicans or guys who picked tomatos or laid brick or cleaned toilets … they were all rich pampered Jihadists from Saudi Arabia or Egypt, the sons of wealthy muslims who either financed their acts or at the least looked the other way. They were not starving peasants trying to make a living.
    – the border fence IS being built … the schedule is for the first 70 miles to be completed sometime around the end of this month, with 300 and some odd miles being completed by a year from this month … and all 1,900 some odd miles of the US-Mexico border to be covered with a combination of physical multi-barrier fence and “virtual” or “smart” fencing by 2011.
    For those who are whining that the fence isn’t done TODAY, well, deal with it. No construction project of this size and scale can be designed in a day, or be built in a day, and end up with anything other than a POS. We’re not putting up a dog run or a rabbit fence – if this fence is to be effective (against both poor Mexicans and wealthy Saudi Jihadists) it has to be designed properly and constructed properly and then manned properly. Sure, we can throw forty zillion dollars at it, of which we’d waste approximately thirty nine point nine zillion on a boondoggle … leaving us with a badly designed, badly built fence that doesn’t work as intended.
    Please, a show of hands … how many want that as an outcome? No, didn’t think so.
    The border fence, all things considered, will be one of the least consequential weapons in our arsenal against the Jihadists. Killing the bastards in Iraq and Afghanistan, puttin’ the wood to their masters in Iran and Syria, going after their international financing, and hundreds of other activities we never even hear about are what will keep us safe. Not the border fence.
    The border fence is something we need for other purposes. Controlling our border is essential, and the border fence will be among the most costly of the means we’ll use to accomplish that end. But it’s not going to happen overnight, no matter how much you stamp your feet and threaten to pout.

  17. Oh, and as a couple other posters above pointed out, even if we had the equivalent of the Great Wall of China built across the entire US-Mexico border, there’s still the 3,000-mile US-Canada border, plus literally tens of thousands of miles of seacoast. Not to mention the ability to airdrop people over any kind of barrier we might ever choose to deploy.
    Those minor facts are why the world’s best border security cannot protect us from Jihadists, or even from poor Mexican peasants seeking a paycheck. That’s why the adults have to concern themselves with far more than the merely symbolic risks we face.

  18. A fair summary of the dangers can be found in this Homeland Security report, “A Line in the Sand: Confronting the Threat at the Southwest Border” published in 2006.
    Key findings:
    “During 2005, Border Patrol apprehended approximately 1.2 million illegal aliens; of those 165,000 were from countries other than Mexico. Of the non-Mexican aliens, approximately 650 were from special interest countries. Special interest countries are those “designated by the intelligence community as countries that could export individuals that could bring harm to our country in the way of terrorism.” (pp. 2-3)
    “Since September 11, 2001 to the present hundreds of illegal aliens from special interest countries (such as Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Pakistan, Cuba, Brazil, Ecuador, China, Russia, Yemen, Albania, Yugoslavia and Afghanistan) were apprehended within the South Texas region alone.” (p. 28)
    “Just recently, U.S. intelligence officials report that seven Iraqis were found in Brownsville, Texas in June 2006. In August 2006, an Afghani man was found swimming across the Rio Grande River in Hidalgo, Texas; as recently as October 2006, seven Chinese were apprehended in the Rio Grande Valley area of Texas.” (p. 28)
    “Members of Hezbollah, the Lebanon-based terrorist organization, have already entered to the United States across our Southwest border. On March 1, 2005, Mahmoud Youssef Kourani pleaded guilty to providing material support to Hezbollah. Kourani is an illegal alien who had been smuggled across the U.S.-Mexico border after bribing a Mexican consular official in Beirut for a visa to travel to Mexico. Kourani and a Middle Eastern traveling partner then paid coyotes in Mexico to guide them into the United States. Kourani established residence among the Lebanese expatriate community in Dearborn, Michigan and began soliciting funds for Hezbollah terrorists back home in Lebanon. He is the brother of the Hezbollah chief of military operations in southern Lebanon.” (pp. 29-30)
    “In December 2002, Salim Boughader Mucharrafille, a café owner in Tijuana, Mexico, was arrested for illegally smuggling more than two hundred Lebanese illegally into the United States, including several believed to have terrorist ties to Hezbollah. Just last month Robert L. Boatwright, Assistant Chief Patrol Agent of the El Paso Texas Sector, reported, “We have apprehended people from countries that support terrorism…they were thoroughly debriefed and there was a tremendous amount of information collected from them.” (p. 30)
    Read it all.
    Meanwhile, guest blogger DRJ over at Patterico’s blog has a post regarding Mexico’s recent pipeline explosions. Apparently, the Revolutionary People’s Army (EPR), a Marxist terrorist group believed to have been largely defanged years before, has suddenly re-emerged to become a potential insurgent threat south of the border.
    DRJ wonders whether the newly resuscitated EPR may be getting help from somewhere else.

  19. For the problem of international terrorism, a southern border fence is false security if it’s any security at all. Build it because it keeps Mexican peasants from sneaking in, but that’s it. It’s so easy for anybody (with enough money) to change their identity first (if they need to) and then just fly here on a visa, or to Canada on a visa. Once they have one foot on the ground in New York City, or Toronto, they disappear.

  20. It’s so easy for anybody (with enough money) to change their identity first (if they need to) and then just fly here on a visa, or to Canada on a visa. Once they have one foot on the ground in New York City, or Toronto, they disappear.
    Congress passed a law to (supposedly) deal with this back in 1996.
    The measures required in that law still have not been implemented.

  21. For those of you who whine “whose gonna cut my grass? whose gonna clean hotel rooms?” I have to ask, who the hell did those jobs before the invasion from the south started? Martians?
    We need a fence. And we need to say “no signs in Spanish. No utility bills in Spanish” because if we cannot have one language, then the bills should be printed in every language respresented in the U.S., no matter how many or how few speak that language. To do anything else is discrimination against those who do not speak either English or Spanish.
    As a Texan, I want a damn fence. I am sick to death of my property taxes doubling every three years to pay for illegals in my state schools and paying for their groceries with Lone Star cards.
    Rick Perry is not making any friends and if he can’t take the next election his dreams of the White House are dashed (and yes, Perry wants the golden ring).
    Employers need to be busted and hard enough that they will think twice about hiring an illegal ever again. When you make paying out thousands in fines and sitting in jail the result of hiring practices, the extra few bucks that will be demanded by American workers will seem like a bargain.
    We need a national I.D. card and don’t give me that crap about Big Brother. Hell, a first year U.T. computer geek can take your response on this web site and within an hour have your credit and medical history. So what if it is illegal? So is sneaking into our nation without our permission.
    What will it take for our politicians to realize the severity of the problem? Perhaps blowing up an oil refinary in Pasadena, Texas wiping out 1/4th of Houston?

  22. Coldwarrior415 has the right approach. Stiff, draconian measures.
    Fences are not enough, but they are an important component. And they have symbolic value.
    Captain, how about picking a day when, according to past legislation, we should have had a southern fence, and start counting off the days: “Day NNNN: Still no fence.” Update every day. Maybe get other blogs to follow suit.
    /Mr Lynn

  23. Carol, if you want to live under the statutes of a mandatory ID system why don’t you move to Europe?
    TyCaptains, Who said mexican trucks are unchecked? Do you really believe that?
    The comments in this section have really digressed from the subject of terrorists crossing our borders to illegals crossing the border. I am percieving that illegals are a greater concern than terrorists. I myself would prefer the illegals over the terrorists.
    I do not think that terrorists are coming into our country from our southern border. If they are then let’s see the evidence. I don’t think that the mexicans even like these guys. Remember, our southwestern states belonged to the mexicans before our country took them over. So the mexicans have a love affair with our country too – and do you think the mexicans are going to put up with these guys – who even blow up their own kind to make a point? I don’t think so.
    Getting back to Carol’s ID card idea: We as a nation of people are putting up with airport security measures that are many times demeaning to us because we are supporting our government in this fight against terrorism. But to give up our American character of living a sovereign lifestyle by accepting a mandatory ID card with the statutes that go with it is not acceptable. Americans can identify each other on site no matter where we go and meet in the world. So what do we need an ID card for to identify each other? Are we now considered potential terrorists in your mind?

  24. a thing or two wrote:
    For those who are whining that the fence isn’t done TODAY, well, deal with it. No construction project of this size and scale can be designed in a day, or be built in a day, and end up with anything other than a POS. We’re not putting up a dog run or a rabbit fence – if this fence is to be effective (against both poor Mexicans and wealthy Saudi Jihadists) it has to be designed properly and constructed properly and then manned properly. Sure, we can throw forty zillion dollars at it, of which we’d waste approximately thirty nine point nine zillion on a boondoggle … leaving us with a badly designed, badly built fence that doesn’t work as intended.
    Exactly!!! Just because Lou Dobbs is on tuesday decrying the lack of a fence it doesn’t mean that on wednesday his show will be any differet. He will have the exact same complaint because it takes a long time to build something so large, that crosses multiple states. You can’t simply say “I’m building a fence” and then start building wherever you want. You most likely would have to clear it with each individual state and they will wrangle back and forth as to where the fence goes.
    This is why, for example the WTC still isn’t rebuilt, why some people still have trailers in new orleans years after the fact. You have to wade through all the beuracracy, all the local laws, and politics, and then even when all that is worked out you still have to build the thing. And its going to take a long time.
    I’m still a supporter of having the fence built, but wish those wanting it done would have a little more perspective and patience.

  25. “Remember, our southwestern states belonged to the mexicans before our country took them over. So the mexicans have a love affair with our country too”
    What a bunch of silly tripe. They had Texas for 14 years and California etc for 24 years. The land belonged to Spain. It was then taken from them by what are now known as Mexicans– the Spanish born in Mexico and Mestizos–Spanish and Indian mix. The first major Mexican(1810-1821) revolution was started, along with other gripes, because of a strict caste system. How strict? Pregnant Spanish women would sail across the ocean back to Spain to have their children. Children born in Mexico were second class citizens with a rank just above “half breeds”–Mestizoes.
    The entire US area in question had less than 7,000 Spanish living there. Texas sprung into existence when the Spanish/Mexican government gave free land to Americans to settle assuming they would fight the local Comanches etc who were crossing the Rio Grande and killing the Spanish. When the Spanish/Mexicans later changed the rules Texas, along with several other Mexican states, rebelled.
    even Wikipedia can’t distort the war.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican-American_War
    So please stop with the La Raza crap about this being part of Mexico. With that kind of logic then the British, French, Dutch and Spanish can lay claim to our entire country.

  26. While granny is getting frisked at the airport Akmed and his cronies are crossing the Rio Grande. Its only a matter of time. Build the damn wall. If you have any doubt that a wall works then go to Jerusalem

  27. Conrad, we were told that social security cards wouldn’t be used for ID. Hence, the lie can be recognized.
    The one reason we don’t have effective ID programs, is that the States control Motor Vehicle Bureaus. And, other than the obnoxious waits, anybody can pay the fee, and get a license. (Or at least ID. If they’re too old to drive.)
    I don’t have to “move to Europe.”
    I know what’s coming.
    It’s not here, yet, because companies provide ID to their employees. It’s an efficient system. Go around, anyplace, and you see people CHOOSING to work where they get “tagged.” And, they wear their tags, too.
    It’s not impossible.
    But you can’t build a good system with pork.
    You can do, when things are really, really, important; ways to bypass the ineffective hires made by the post office. And, beyond. With what Donald Rumsfeld called “stove pipes.” But that doesn’t build a complete system.
    Heck, if you wanted to “walk around Microsoft,” and got lucky enough to get hired; you’d discover for how long GOOD ID EXISTS. As I said, people wear this stuff like jewelry.
    The Army? DOG TAGS. As old as WW2.
    Now, if you cut back into history; you’d find something strange. I did. My mom’s family came to American in 1913. Photography was around. But our passports didn’t have them! (What I would give to see a photo like that, now! But all I have are my grandma and grandpa’s original passports. Stamped at every port they were in. And, their names spelled TWO WAYS. Did no one notice?)
    Alas, photographs would have been nice.
    But it took the government time before it got adopted.
    And, talking of Europe. They take photographs for passports, too.
    Systems are out there!
    But the pork infested critters in congress act dumb and dumber.
    As to fencng? Why bother. Animals who graze walk back and forth. And, the Mexicand have dug routes underneath the earth that go on for miles and miles and miles.
    And, this doesn’t even discuss taking a boat in Mexico that travels three miles out into the Pacific; and cuts a course that lets the passengers arrive … Along out water’s edge. Lots of water to cover! So far, covered mostly by Coast Guard.
    Ditto, for the Atlantic side of the map.
    Ditto, that you can enter the Delta in Louisiana; and travel the Mississippi and Missouri, too.
    Fences are for pork.
    The ID idea? Since it’s been working for corporations; I think it’s about time we began to give this a try.
    Israel doesn’t let you move around unless they’ve captured a picture of your eyeball. It’s security like that, that I like very much.
    RIght here. Happy where I’m living, too.

  28. Rudy was just on Hewitt’s show. Read it and weep:
    HH: Now Mayor, let’s talk some politics in the remaining time we have. Washington Times this morning has a story, illegals talk alienates Giuliani supporters, and it talks about a separation between you and Peter King, and your declaration that illegal immigration isn’t a crime. What were you trying to say, and is this story overstating the differences between you…
    RG: Oh, sure. Pete King and I are good friends, and he’s a big supporter of my campaign. The simple reality is Pete would agree with me that it’s not a crime. He tried to make it a crime. It’s not. I mean, I’m a lawyer. I know politicians do all kind of pandering, and they make all kinds of statements. I’m not particularly good at that kind of thing. I just tell people the truth. I mean, the truth is crossing the border is a misdemeanor, being an illegal immigrant is not a crime, and Congress tried to make it a crime, I think it was a year ago, two years ago, and it didn’t pass both houses.
    HH: Should it be a crime, Mayor?
    RG: It shouldn’t be, because you wouldn’t be able to prosecute it. It would be 12 million people. Do you know how many people we have in jail, every jail, if you used up every jail in this country?

  29. “So please stop with the La Raza crap, about this being part of Mexica” So what is this hupala all about?
    My great great grand father faught in the mexican – american war of 1846 – 1847 and I have lived in the southwest for most of my life, and traveled in the most remote areas of it. I know something about it’s history and past people. Where did you get your knowledge? I guess you missed my point. And the British do claim this country – who do you think owns the copy write on the “United States?” Surprize
    Carol, I know it is coming, mandatory ID. People are changing and want it. I have been an outdoors person experiencing the freedom of being oneself without others imposing restrictions on what I want to “be” and “do” It is harder to be that way now in our urban societies.
    All this way of thinking that I carry from my family roots, I feel, started to change with roosevelt,the new deal, and the Administrative preceedures Act of 1934 – our fourth branch of government. It took the states until the sixties to adapt these federal statutes into their laws. But now here we are – and there are so many people confused because they think they are living under common law when in reality we are living under administrative law.
    I think the more people understand this the more we can cut the confusion about how to use administrative law to the benefit of our nation – with responsibility.

  30. The simple reality is Pete would agree with me that it’s not a crime. He tried to make it a crime. It’s not. I mean, I’m a lawyer.
    He is an amazingly bad lawyer if so. It IS a crime. Maybe he means that it is not a felony. But there is no question that it is a crime. A misdemeanor is a crime.
    I know politicians do all kind of pandering, and they make all kinds of statements. I’m not particularly good at that kind of thing. I just tell people the truth.
    What a crock.
    It shouldn’t be, because you wouldn’t be able to prosecute it.
    We can’t prosecute ANY crime under this logic. And this is the Law and Order Mayor? The zero tolerance for crime guy?
    he was simply stating the law as written.
    He was also stating the law as he thinks the law should be. Building the fence won’t do us much good if we cannot prosecute people who get past it. Rudy does not want that to happen.

  31. From Blacks Law Dictionary;
    ‘Crime’ and ‘misdemeanor’, properly speaking, are synonymous terms; though in common usage ‘crime’ is made to denote such offenses as are of a more serious nature.”
    How can this clown claim to be a lawyer when he does not know what the word “crime” means? Unbelievable.
    That is apart for the spectacle of watching him engage in Clintonian semantics in an effort to both be “tough on crime’ and to excuse his indifference towards illegal immigration.

  32. The fence is not built because the bigger plan is the melding of Mexico, Canada and the U.S. into one entity. Building a fence then would constitute a waste of time, effort and resources.

  33. “I know something about it’s history and past people. Where did you get your knowledge? I guess you missed my point.”
    exactly what part of my knowledge was inaccurate?
    as to your point, it was hard to miss. some long lost, some say stolen, romantic notion that Mexicans long for the US, or at least have a warm fuzzy feeling for us is a bunch of bunk. read the droppings from groups such as La Raza.
    Tell me as you drove around the remote areas of the southwest did you run into any of the original 7000 Spainards that used to live there?
    your statement about Mexico originally owning the southwest is the boilerplate statement of all the illegal immigrants who claim they never crossed the border but the border crossed them.
    build the fence and keep them out. enough is enough. learn to mow your own lawn! if the fence keeps out a few terrorists, that’s a bonus.
    as to your other point about “evidence”, the border patrol as stated many times that 10,000’s of middle easterners have been smuggled across the border by gangs and coyotes, with over 100,000 caught. were they terrorists? who knows? i guess the gangs and coyotes missed this gem:
    “So the mexicans have a love affair with our country too – and do you think the mexicans are going to put up with these guys – who even blow up their own kind to make a point? I don’t think so.”

  34. flenser,
    i see you still pretend to read minds:
    “he was simply stating the law as written.
    “He was also stating the law as he thinks the law should be. Building the fence won’t do us much good if we cannot prosecute people who get past it. Rudy does not want that to happen.”
    here’s the part you conveniently left out of the hugh hewitt interview:
    HH: Now Mayor, let’s talk some politics in the remaining time we have. Washington Times this morning has a story, illegals talk alienates Giuliani supporters, and it talks about a separation between you and Peter King, and your declaration that illegal immigration isn’t a crime. What were you trying to say, and is this story overstating the differences between you…
    RG: Oh, sure. Pete King and I are good friends, and he’s a big supporter of my campaign. The simple reality is Pete would agree with me that it’s not a crime. He tried to make it a crime. It’s not. I mean, I’m a lawyer. I know politicians do all kind of pandering, and they make all kinds of statements. I’m not particularly good at that kind of thing. I just tell people the truth. I mean, the truth is crossing the border is a misdemeanor, being an illegal immigrant is not a crime, and Congress tried to make it a crime, I think it was a year ago, two years ago, and it didn’t pass both houses.
    HH: Should it be a crime, Mayor?
    RG: It shouldn’t be, because you wouldn’t be able to prosecute it. It would be 12 million people. Do you know how many people we have in jail, every jail, if you used up every jail in this country? About two million. So you would have a crime that didn’t get prosecuted, which would lead to disrespect for the law.
    HH: Does that logic follow over into the war on drugs, Mayor, to say simple marijuana possession?
    RG: No, we actually have the resources to deal with it. If you look at the number of people we prosecuted for drugs, it’s hundreds of thousands. It’s not 12 million people. So when you think about it, the reality is that if you made it illegal in the sense of the status illegal, you would have a situation that would totally overwhelm law enforcement in this country. You wouldn’t be able to prosecute murderers. So you know, honestly, we’ve got to stop all the knee-jerk political rhetoric and just be honest with people. And I’m not good at knee-jerk political rhetoric. I am good at being honest with people. When I faced illegal immigration in New York City, I did more about it than anybody in the country. But I took a city that had crime out of control, I handled illegal immigration that was part of it. The federal government wouldn’t deport anybody, so I had to deal with it, and I did, and I created the safest large city in this country. And of my opponents, I am the only one that really has had safety and security as a responsibility on my shoulders, and I’m the only one with results.
    HH: So Mayor, what should we do about the illegals who are here?
    RG: We should end illegal immigration at the border. That’s the place to end it. If you let people come into the country, you’ve got a big problem. Even given the legal rights that we have, the legal rights that we have mean the people that are here, whether you consider them illegal or criminal, are entitled to trials, lawyers, appeals to court, habeas corpus. So the best thing to do is you stop it at the border. You build a fence, you build a technological fence, you deploy the Border Patrol every 25 or 50 miles from those points, the technological fence would alert the Border Patrol of the people coming over. You stop them from coming over. You then have a tamper-proof ID card for all the people that are in the United States. They have to get a tamper-proof ID card when they come in, or if they hear they have to get one. If they don’t get one, then you throw them out. And now you’ve gotten it down to a universe of people that will be effective that you’ll be able to deal with. Let me tell you where my opinion comes from. It comes from a frustration I had as Mayor of New York City. I had 400,000 illegal immigrants in New York City. The federal government would not deport anymore than 2,000. So it was impossible for the federal government ever to get to the 400,000. Just think of how they’d have to expand things to go from 2,000 to 400,000. So I asked them could you throw out the drug dealers. If you’re going to do only 2,000, help me with reducing crime and focus on the drug dealers. And the immigration service basically said no. We’ve got professors who have overstayed their visa. We have gardeners, we have people working restaurants. We’ve been working on them longer, and they have to go first. That’s when I realized that our whole immigration system is dysfunctional, might be the nice way to put it.
    HH: Mayor, I’m getting calls from your staff. You’re talking too long. I’d love to have you stay…
    RG: I don’t care if I’m talking too long. I enjoy your show, and we’re trying to communicate something very important to the American people.
    HH: I think it is crucial. I think it is crucial. Do you think that there is a middle ground on illegal immigration out there?
    RG: I think there is, but I don’t think you get there until you end illegal immigration.
    HH: All right.
    RG: And I learned that by traveling the country the last year. I’m not sure I would have given you the same answer a year ago, and it’s not a change in position. It’s a change in the learning process. The American people want us to end illegal immigration, and by far, I’m the candidate best able to do it. I’m the one who has gotten results like that. Ending illegal immigration is like the result I got with crime in New York, or welfare in New York. It’s a massive change, but it can be done if we have the technology to do it now. We have to increase the Border Patrol, we have to build a fence, we have to have the tamper-proof ID card, we have to have the border stat program. If we put that into effect and we stick with it for two to three years, we can end illegal immigration, and then we can deal rationally with the issue of the 12 million people that are here. But then there won’t be a risk that that 12 million will become 20 million.

  35. “Tell me as you drove around the remote areas of the southwest did you run into any of the original 7000 spaninards that used to live there?”
    Do you live in the southwest? How do you drive around in remote areas? Seems like your knowledge comes from books wriiten by white men. So what about the 7000 spainards, do you think they were the only ones even through they were late commers.

  36. okay tonto, i get your drift. keep eating the peyote. after a few buttons “white men” turn color and then maybe you will respect them more.
    speaking of indians now you said something accurate. they are the only ones that can lay claim to land in the americas. however mexicans? give me a break.
    as for the southwest, i know parts of it like the back of my hand. a good toyota four wheel drive and you can go way remote. admittedly you can’t go caveman but you can get very removed. it’s there you may find one of the lost spainards!

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