April 19, 2007

Potential Copycat Cho In Florida?

Fox News reported a few minutes ago that police have arrested a fourteen-year-old boy for making threats to outdo Seung-hui Cho. The teen sent an e-mail to friends that he would kill at least 100 students at school in order to set the "record" for school shootings. A concerned parent read their child's e-mail and reported the threat to the police.

So far, it hasn't hit the wires, but Fox reports that police have had the cooperation of the family and found no evidence that the boy had prepared for an attack. I'll link to the story when it hits the Internet.

UPDATE II: I'm putting this update above the other as it relates to the main topic. Fox reports that the incident occurred in Jacksonville, and that they are still awaiting official word from the police.

UPDATE III: CQ reader Paxety sends this link from a local Jacksonville TV station:

The St. Johns County Sheriff’s Office announced on Wednesday it has arrested a 14-year-old Bartram Trail High School student following threats the teen allegedly made in an e-mail to conduct a mass school shooting.

Sheriff’s office authorities said they were notified late Wednesday morning of the e-mail, which had been sent to a friend of the suspect.

A parent of the friend intercepted the e-mail and called the sheriff’s office and reported the alleged threat, deputies said. ...

According to authorities, the suspect, whose name will not be used because of his age, stated in the e-mail that he was going to top the record of 33 people killed in a school shooting, and went on to state that his goal was 100 victims.

He's charged with a felony at the moment. Right now, it appears he just wanted some attention. I think he's going to get it.

UPDATE: Still nothing on this on the wires or in the Miami Herald, but Fox has a story about an idiot parent in Tennessee:

A mother of a kindergarten student was banned from a school after officials said she walked into a classroom, pointed a toy gun at students and pulled the trigger several times.

The incident happened Tuesday, a day after the shootings at Virginia Tech, and scared the teachers and students. ...

"The mom walked in toward the middle of the classroom, and the teacher heard this click, click, click, click — like four to six times," school principal Jean Heise said. "A teacher's assistant witnessed her take a gun and point it directly toward four to five kids. With everything that's happened the last couple of days, she (the assistant) was just in shock."

Later, she told the principal that she "didn't mean any harm". Uh, okay. They're considering charges against her, but at the least, I'd be concerned that she's a little too unstable to be alone with her children now.


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Comments (13)

Posted by Carol_Herman [TypeKey Profile Page] | April 19, 2007 1:00 PM

Ho-hum. Flag me when they keep the record on this "copy cat" alive, so that he cannot make it into any reputable college, ANYWHERE IN THE USA!

When did we give passes to lunatics?

What happened to "housing" nut cases in lock up hospitals? For a long, long time. You never heard of Bellevue, psychiatric? Where do psychiatrists even get training these days?

And, you better believe it, but nut cases are not "talked to." They are medicated. And, lots of them are medicated against their wills. How so?

I saw this with my own eyes. Long ago. When I worked in medicine. I worked, for a time, at Kings County. Brooklyn. The sister hospital to Bellevue. And, you bet. THEY HAD LOCKED WARDS. All the patients were medicated.

Sometimes? Down in the lobby a nut would "take off." And, about ten strong men, orderlies. Would tackle the lunatic. The pants came down. And, about 1000 units of Thorazine was shot inside the butt cheek. Did it take time to control the very sickest? YES. Because there's something about insanity that gives these jerks the strenghs of many men.

The city hospitals, by law, could keep each "client patient" involuntarily for 30 days. And, judges, also had the right, meaning the legal tools, to incarcerate someone directly from their courtrooms, to be remanded for 30 days.

From the stories I remember? The psychiatrists didn't like it that judges could remand people "for being crazy." Since, they "sometimes" remanded a peson the docs thought was sane.

Like the case, where the administrator and I, were sent to a judge's courtroom, with the doctor's request. In listening to the case, turns out this man took his lit cigarette, and burned it into his 5-year-old daughter's hand.

The wife was there, too. Crying that her husband, who worked as a building "superintendent" had been away from his job. And, she couldn't provide the food for the table.

Interesting transaction.

The judge threatened to send BOTH OF THEM BACK TO KINGS COUNTY! How dare this woman not care about the safety to her own child.

Meanwhile, that 30-day-remand, on the locked Kings Count ward, had such an effect; I am sure it cured this man from ever thinking, again, that when he was drunk, he could go after his five year old. And, put burn marks anywhere on her body.

FEAR. It cures more things than you know.

Meanwhile? Mark Steyn, yesterday, wrote a brilliant piece. Because in Canada, they already had a mass murderer. Who had all the men in the class, exit. The men stood in the hallway. As this lunatic popped off and killed all the remaining girls in the class. He then exited the room. And, walked by all the males. No one molested him.

What does it take to molest a nut job? Mario Puzo, when writing the GODFATHER, guessed that "Uncle Vinny" brought law and order to the creeps that thought men were pussies. And, hurt dames.

Steyn points out that we've let education get in the way of men's testosteron. We've allowed our kids to be trained to be wimps. As most boys, by their very nature, wouldn't behave this way at all.

As to copy cats: BULL SHIT.

As to video games? Look at what we have our boys doing, just so they can escape the teachers who are contantly telling them their penises are the cause of the world's troubles.

Nope. Not boys testicles. And, not your ability to talk up.

We will cure what happened at Virginia Tech, as soon as we begin to hold the Department of Education responsible for all the clap trap they've been passing out with their grading system.

Oh, yeah. How did Cho get a 4-year ride at an expensive college, huh? You like it when your kids have to share dorm room space with nut bags?

You like it even more, when you complain, to see the song-and-dance routines these "administrators and academics" (using the term loosely enough that it doesn't hold any competence) ...

You think that it's a "copy cat" problem? Hello. HELL NO.

Because what started this is a very certain fact. The people in charge of caring for ALL the students, are mind-boggling idiots. Their first concern? KEEPING THE FIRST TWO KILLINGS A SECRET. Calling for outside help, would have brought attention to Cho, much earlier.

Meanwhile? In the two hours that passed, where he heard none of the helicopters overhead. Saw nothing to indicate that this story would "get out of the campus" circle; he went to the post office to mail his package!

TWO HOURS! I thought he ran into hiding, and lowered his pants.

How long did he have to wait on line at the post office? Does anyone remember the visit? Was he asked by the postal worker if he wanted a receipt? Or if he wanted to buy "tracking" on his package?

We hire professionals. And, then we see things going wrong. That's the reality, here.

Psychiatrists, do not keep crazy patients in their practices all that long. And, the craziest ones fight all the medication; until you put them IN, using the incarceration laws. We've weakened those, too.

This is worse that just locking your crazy aunt up in the attic! This is a deriliction of duty.

And, to put it in perspective, since there are marginal characters out there; and they do infest our schools. Writing laws that force innocent kids into the craziest of charges ... Like when a kindergartener, male, "kisses" a little girl, classmate. And, some administrator lunatic forces the boy to suffer paperwork humiliation.

Do you know why?

It's easier to go after people who don't fight back. Who aren't nuts. And, who live in abject terror of the administrators. Because they'll never even listen.

And, yes. They tossed ROTC off campus, too.

Want to stop paying the price? Support the Boy Scouts. And, stomp on at least a few of these turkeys, who should be driving cabs. And, not have jobs within the department of education at all.

Okay. I'll expand on my point. The most obvious thing for you to see is that there are nuts out there who do not have the mental agility to be normals.

Copy catting, only means sick-o's want help. And, they should get it.

In one other situation I read, yesterday. Where a kid threatened "also" to do a Cho; the father is up in arms. Claiming his son's "First Amendment rights" were violated.

No. Not every birth pops out a darling.

And, to have a Cho, you should take a pretty good look at the surrounding family members, as well.

You'd be surprised what's inherited.

I'd like to see a better approach. One where lawmen can out-do the Mafia.

Posted by Paxety [TypeKey Profile Page] | April 19, 2007 1:38 PM

The story is basically true - it's all over the news here in Jacksonville. Go to jacksonville.com for the local newspaper.

My office manager's child attends the school. The parents have no concern that the child actually intended to do any such thing - although many of the kids say they are afraid and will not go to school tomorrow - the day the incident was supposed to occur. The opinion of many is that the kids see a good opportunity to get a three day weekend.

Posted by docjim505 [TypeKey Profile Page] | April 19, 2007 1:46 PM

The mom walked in toward the middle of the classroom, and the teacher heard this click, click, click, click — like four to six times," school principal Jean Heise said. "A teacher's assistant witnessed her take a gun and point it directly toward four to five kids. With everything that's happened the last couple of days, she (the assistant) was just in shock.

That's it? THAT'S IT??? Less than a week after Virginia Tech, some damned fool walks into a classroom, pulls out a "gun", points it at the kids, and all the TA could do was stand there???

Mark Steyn has written about this*. To borrow from him, we've made cowardice the default response to a threat. I know it takes guts to stand up to somebody with a knife or a gun, but it's like being on an hijacked airliner post-9-11: you've got nothing to lose, so you might as well go down swinging.


(*) http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YzEzYzQ0Y2MyZjNlNjY1ZTEzMTA0MGRmM2EyMTQ0NjY=

Posted by NoDonkey [TypeKey Profile Page] | April 19, 2007 1:55 PM

You're supposed to wait for "law enforcement" to help you. Don't try and do anything.

And then you can end of up the VaTech students or this couple:

"Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom. Christian, 21, and Newsome, 23, both of Knoxville, were driving through that city together on the night of January 6 when they were kidnapped and murdered. Newsome’s burned body was found along some railroad tracks on January 7. Christian remained missing for two more days until her body, stuffed in a trash can, was found in a home not far from where Newsome’s was found. Police and prosecutors allege both victims were raped before being killed. Yes, both. Three men and a woman have been charged with the crimes in a 46-count grand jury indictment handed down in Knoxville on January 31."

But according to the liberals, we shouldn't have guns with which to defend ourselves. Let's leave that up to the "experts".

Look how that worked out for Channon - after being raped for four days, her rapists murdered her and the police found her body stuffed into a trash can.

But at least she wasn't shot . . . good thing Tennessee has effective gun control.

Posted by Carol_Herman [TypeKey Profile Page] | April 19, 2007 3:27 PM

Yes, wait for law enforcement to show up!

Response rate, here, where I live, is withint three minutes.

Yes. We had ONE MURDER, about a decade, ago. Quiet street. Happened at 2:00 am. When a chinese fella, wearing a Rolex, attracted some criminal to follow him home.

So? YOu want some advice? Check your rearview mirrors. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE THERE, FOLKS.

And, that's why the word 'ambulance" is written BACKWARDS, on the fronts of amulances; around this country!

As to suspicious behaviors? Well, I'd just toodle into the parking lot of my local police station. Sure. The sign bids me NOT to enter. But I'm no fool. If some criminal wanted to follow me home, he'd have no idea WHY I drove through those gates on a residential street. ANd, I'd also fall on my horn. To do so? I can't pull the key out of my car, either. But I sure can point and scream. The police are there 24/7. And, as I said, they respond! Traffic accidents also get the emergency vehicles rolling.

Well? Taxpayers pay for police service. And, they really are there to help.

You just can't hold up every single horror story, though, and try to pass this off as usual, and common behaviors. They're not that at all, in the story told above, by NoDonkey.

And, like everything else in life, you can listen to what happened in past events; and you can decide if you're gonna be a victim. Or not.

The same way with airline passengers.

Today's Americans aren't gonna sit there like lambs. Some will toss soda cans. Some will rise and toss all of the overhead bins full of stuff; till the stuff is scattered on the floor.

One may take a pen and stick it into the eyeball of a pervert.

Heck, even that idiot, Reid, who tried to light his shoes. Got pounced on and beaten up by passengers. Including a frenchman, or two. Had the crap beaten out of him; or as one commentor said "had the bejesus of a beating."

You don't think criminals know how to run away?

You're pulling my leg, again, RIIIGHT?

Posted by GarandFan [TypeKey Profile Page] | April 19, 2007 3:28 PM

After Colombine I had a serious talk with both my kids who were in high school. I told them when faced with such incidents, the natural instinct is to flee or cower. Big BUT...if someone is shooting and bent on taking your life, I hope that you will at least go down fighting. The cowards expect you to do certain things, they've seen them in all the wonderful Hollywood movies. You do want they don't expect. Throw a book or chair in their face. As they duck or flinch, you attack. You use your arms, your hands, your feet , your teeth. Jab a finger as hard and as far as you can into an eye.
Gruesome? Yes it is, not a topic one normally speaks about with their kids.. But today, faced with such an incident, everyone's survival is up to them. It starts with a conscious decision that "I will not be a willing victim".

Posted by NoDonkey [TypeKey Profile Page] | April 19, 2007 3:42 PM

What I'm saying Carol, is protect yourself the best you can and don't wait for law enforcement to help you.

Because unlike on TV and in the movies, the murderers don't make lengthy speeches and go through PowerPoint presentations before killing people or assaulting them.

I was walking down the street in St. Louis about a decade ago, around noon. A man was dragging a screaming young woman.

No one did a thing. Hundreds of people ignored them.

I told the guy, "you can't do this". She was his wife (or so he claimed) and she was screwing around on him (or so he claimed).

Anyway, I talked to him, while he shouted, and eventually, a crowd gathered and he ran off.

Yes, he could have shot or stabbed me. Whatever. I'm not standing around and pretending that what was happening in front of me, wasn't happening, like everyone else. I was lucky.

It took a good five minutes for the police to show up. By that time, he would have long ago dragged her off.

Not saying the police don't try, but they cannot be everywhere, and in less than a minute, people can be dead.

By the time the cops show up, it's usually just to pick up the bodies.

Posted by Dan S [TypeKey Profile Page] | April 19, 2007 3:49 PM

Amen, GarandFan,

And it may just go one step farther, that decision not to be a victim. It most likely sends subliminal warning signals to potential assailants. Do bullies pick on the most assertive and confident members of a group first? Rarely, if ever. They take the cues. They go for those who appear weak and vulnerable, and a very large commonent of that appearance is attitude. If you feel like a potential victim, your attitude and appearance are going to be waving an invisible hands over your head signifying, "ooo, ooo, pick me, pick me!"

But it's also unwise to carry it too far the other dfirection as this waves a different challenge to those sorts or their kin, "I'm top dog, you're gonna have to take me down first." Some of the non-bullies, but those sociopathic or simply tyrannical will take you up on it.

Moderation is good. At least until you have to act. Then make sure they can't repeat their error.

What we need is this sort of coverage on more incidents like the recent off-duty cop who killed that gunner in the mall. For some reason, though, those get less coverage. I just can't figure that one out...

Posted by Rose [TypeKey Profile Page] | April 19, 2007 7:26 PM

San Antonio News Radio reported this afternoon that a kid was arrested inthe Seattle area, today, for taking a gun to school with the intentions of killing students.

I have no details on THAT story at all - the news team didn't have details when they told that at a commercial break, saying they'd supply details as they came in.

Posted by Rose [TypeKey Profile Page] | April 19, 2007 7:43 PM

Posted by: docjim505 at April 19, 2007 01:46 PM


It's time to scrap ALL the Liberal BS propaganda classes and set up Self-Defense classes - first. Teaching for wide variety of scenarios. Wide variety of capabilities and skill levels, and for thinking OUTSIDE THE BOX how to use what is available and make the most of it in an emergency.

Also to teach some people to make sure they always have a little sumpin' sumpin' on them at all times, even if it is only a new way of holding their car keys, or adding a whistle or pepper spray to their key chain.

We had a former Green Beret at our high school when I was a kid, and he taught us how to roll up a newspaper for a weapon, and how to use your own collarbone, when on the floor, to grab another, standing person's ankle and crash into it with all your weight at your shoulder, to break their leg at the shin, so you could escape.

Many of these kinds of experts can teach people to think of things they might NEVER have considered, otherwise, with just what is handy, or can be easily gotten and KEPT handy.

Like for girls to have a small purse-sized can of hairspray in their bag. And they even teach them which kinds of purse patterns are easiest to use to help use AS weapons or to have easiest access to stuff inside that can be used for weapons, like the keys.

Posted by Rose [TypeKey Profile Page] | April 19, 2007 8:11 PM

What we need is this sort of coverage on more incidents like the recent off-duty cop who killed that gunner in the mall. For some reason, though, those get less coverage. I just can't figure that one out...

Posted by: Dan S


You are right about this, too.

Did I hear or think I did, that house break-ins actually dropped in some areas, recently, after several elderly, up in their 80's, started shooting to kill thieves who broke into their homes, the last few months???

I think this is a major way to go forward.

Posted by docjim505 [TypeKey Profile Page] | April 19, 2007 8:13 PM


Amen. It bothers me that my niece has neither the skills nor the attitude to take up for herself. I'm not interested in turning her into an 11 year-old commando, but she's already been brainwashed with the stupid idea that "Violence never solves anything". Her mother, who was robbed at gunpoint some years ago, even forbids me to teach my niece how to shoot; "Guns are evil."

Scream. Run. Scratch. Bite. Kick. Aim low. Go for the eyes. Stab in the throat with a key or a pencil. Spray hairspray in the eyes. Anything to keep from becoming a face on a milk carton.

Posted by Rose [TypeKey Profile Page] | April 19, 2007 10:20 PM

You are right, Doc,

The fact is your sister, or sister-in-law is very lucky she escaped a situation where she was NOT trying to defend herself.

Many years ago, the thinking was that a thief "only wants your money" and if you just give it to him, he'll leave you alone.

That isn't likely to be what a perp is after, these days, except as a side benefit.

Non-violent crime is down, violent crime is up.

The stats on date rape would curl your hair.
And I assure you, women don't get in vehicles or isolated situations with men who give them the creeps - so in those situations, the guys are on their super-best VIP treatment. Usually the most sophisticated acting, too!

I hope you get an opportunity some time to start finding a few situations to just drop some one-liners, perhaps over time...
Especially if you just say, did you see this case where someone drove off an attacker (in a very unusual way)?

Sometimes the most important thing is just a stronger sense of awareness of one's surroundings.

I have a niece that got stalked in traffic several times, and she didn't have a cell phone in those days, but she had 3 children in the backseat in child seats.
We aren't sure what was going on, the car she was driving was on the hot list of desireables for stolen and hi-jacked vehicles, but she is a very striking brunette with green eyes, too.
One of the men got himself around her car and then bumped it - trying to shove her off the road from the front driver's corner of her own car. Good thing she had a strong grill guard on the car!
She knew to try to find a police station, but didn't know where the nearest one was.
(Sometimes driving into the red-lined area of a major market's front doors and sitting on the horn in that case would be good. )

In her case, though, years of wild country-road driving - not her being a wild driver - but our part of the country, some of the ROADS are wild, and we get flash flooding, too.

She just kept looking for the busiest places to turn into, until she finally shook them off.

Then she drove around a long time, checking her rear view, and everything else, until she was very sure they were gone, before she drove home again, so they couldn't find out where she lived.

I tell you, with her with 3 toddlers, we really worried a lot about her until she got a cell phone, and she did a lot of investigating about some self-defense courses, and also some of the kinds of tricks we are talking about, here - she says sometimes, with groceries and 3 kids, it is hard to make sure she is checking out her surroundings, but she sure does make sure she does, after that happened.