May 21, 2007

Cloture Means You Never Have To Say You're Sorry (Updated)

For those who have tried reason, patience, and calm, the Senate will make all three a waste of time later today or tomorrow morning. Depending on which source one gets, advocates of the immigration reform compromise will seek cloture on debate in order to limit the discussion of the legislation -- and compound the impression that they are rushing for a reason:

If the reports of the scheduling of a cloture vote for tonight on the draft immigration bill are correct --I have read them, but haven't seen or heard any official comment on it-- the Republican senators who vote for it should expect lasting damage to their standing in the party. Very few --if any-- senators have read the final bill, and having spent hours this weekend studying the Friday night draft, I know the complexities here are far too great to puzzle out in even a couple of weeks' time. Demanding cloture today or even this week is a giveaway that the bill is fundamentally flawed. It will also be a lasting marker of contempt for their supporters' opinions on the part of those senators voting to end debate before it has even begun.

This bill has many complexities that have to be researched and analyzed before anyone can think about limiting debate. So far, I have not even heard that the legislation has been entered into the record -- so no one even has an official copy of the bill. That means that advocates want to press for approval before anyone reads it and has a chance to offer improvements. What exactly does that say about this legislation?

And what exactly is the rush? This proposal purports to solve a number of problems -- border security, the status of 12 million people illegally residing in our country, labor management for low-skilled jobs, and the creation of a vast bureaucracy to handle all of these projects. All address problems that have existed for 21 years. Can't we take a couple of weeks, at least, to peruse the bill to make sure it does it effectively?

And if not, why not?

This Congress has kept troops in combat waiting over 100 days for funding and supplies like the AMRAP armor that could save their lives. That's something that should have been completed in a week. It's beyond ridiculous to insist that Congress immediately pass something of this complexity with the barest of analysis, and it underscores the impression that we're being sold a bill of goods.

UPDATE: According to The Hill, the timeframe for debate now looks like three weeks. That's much better, and should be enough to allow Senators to take a very close look at a very complicated bill, and perhaps resolve the dealbreakers in the details.

UPDATE II: The Senate will not attempt to rush through the immigration reform proposal, as demanded by the original parties to the compromise. According to a source on Capitol Hill, Harry Reid and Mitch McConnell have agreed that the bill should get extensive debate and opportunity for amendments to address concerns on both sides of the aisle:

On the Senate floor just a couple hours ago, Senator Reid agreed to Senator McConnell's position, saying that 'at the advice of Senator McConnell', he thinks it would be in the best interest of the Senate to not try and finish the bill this week, and that we'll resume consideration after recess.

After winning that concession from the Democrats, Sen. McConnell said "“The other point I would make is that we shouldn't be in a hurry to finish this bill. Last year, there were 35 immigration amendments. 23 amendments were voted on before cloture and 12 were voted on after cloture. This is by any standard at least a two-week bill and I think any effort to finish up this bill one way or the other this particular week would be unsuccessful."

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Comments (27)

Posted by penigma | May 21, 2007 3:35 PM

Up or down vote. The American People deserve to have Congress do the people's business not waste our time and money on dead-ender debates that amount to nothing.

I think the bill stinks, and I support the right of Cloture, but it's the height of Hypocrisy for the Right, which nearly revoked Cloture two years ago, to now support it.

I think the bill stinks because it's a grand waste of money to build a fence. I think it also stinks in that it requires illegals to go home to "touch base" to come back. It also stinks in that it apparently gives exemptions to allow immigration to act as the resource to fill to what would have been high paying jobs for US workers. It's not that US workers wouldn't do those jobs, it's that it's a lot cheaper to let immigrant engineers or systems analysts do it, so screw US citizens.

Posted by penigma | May 21, 2007 3:40 PM

Sorry, I meant Fillibuster, I support Fillibuster and yet, the Right wanted to revoke it.

Why would it take much more time? The problem has been around 21 years as have forms of each proposal, certainly people can evaluate the proposals fairly quickly, none are really new. Debate in the Senate is about as useful as tits on a boar. Much sound and fury amounting to nothing.

Posted by Jim | May 21, 2007 4:14 PM

"It's a grand waste of money to build a fence." Says who?

Fence doesn't work? I guess someone forgot to tell the people in San Diego. Pre-14 mile fence - 100,000 illegals a year. Post fence - 5,000 a year; a 95% reduction.

What doesn't work and what is a JOKE are those bogus "virtual" methods. Yeah, watch em pour across - "smile for the camera folks."

1. Secure the borders first.
2. THEN we talk about the 12 million already here.

Instead we get: Legalize them, and THEN we'll "tighten up the borders...we PROMISE." Yeah. Right.



Posted by LarryD | May 21, 2007 4:29 PM

The Right wanted to end Filibustering Judicial Appointments, said use of the Filibuster is quite new and amounts to change of the Constitutional requirements for Senate approval of judicial appointments.

Posted by Steven | May 21, 2007 4:33 PM

I may well be remembering this incorrectly, but I think it's possible that the Republicans were talking about ending the filibuster on judicial nominations, not on legislation.

Posted by Ron C | May 21, 2007 4:44 PM

Such a farce - so many idiots... so many fools.

Deport the f'n illegals, and their lawless supporters. Truman did it and did it right - but no such sense exists among the elected dolts in US government today.

Today's feminine wimps in Congress are too dumb to stand up against the ongoing scam to destroy this nation, subsuming it into the 'AU' mess without borders and minimal to no control on immigration.

That's only the beginning of the fun though... get ready - the US dollar will cease to be the world's reserve currency, yielding to the Euro. The dollar will be replaced by the 'Amero' - worth approximately a tenth of the dollar's current value.

You are witnessing the Frenchification of the US - soon to be complete with all of the chaos seen there.

Posted by jim | May 21, 2007 5:01 PM

"underscores the impression that we're being sold a bill of goods."

Actually I don't think we are "sold" The body politic is in bi-partisan consensus that our elected representives in Washington have it wrong. We rebeled against England for much less. Time to clean house(s). Enough government by the self-interested few already.

Posted by MarkJ | May 21, 2007 5:13 PM

A modest suggestion: privately import the Israeli firms which erected the security fence between Israel and Palistan...and have them put another one up like it on the border with "Mexistan."

I've got a sawbuck that says the the Israelis provide a finished product that would be:

1. Up and running well before any established deadline.

2. Significantly under budget.

and

3. At least 90% effective.

Posted by Adjoran | May 21, 2007 5:15 PM

As a strong supporter of the concept of comprehensive reform, I can state unequivocally that this bill is a loser.

For one thing, the requirements for the "path to citizenship" are such that very few will take advantage of it - which is the whole point of having such a plan.

For another, the "Z-visas" grant legality on demand unless the government background check uncovers problems IN ONE DAY after submission of the application. Knowing the typical bureaucratic processing time, this means everyone gets one . . .

. . . .INCLUDING the illegal gang-bangers, now a target for deportation by INS. Under this plan, if they only "renounce gang affiliations," they qualify and cannot be deported.

It a word, it sucks.

The original Bush plan, with added enforcement and full funding for the fence where needed (no, it isn't needed along the whole border) was far superior, but our own party rejected it. Even the original McCain-Kennedy bill from last year was better than this monstrosity.

A weak bill would be better than none, it is true, because the problem is getting worse all the time and something needs to be done. But this bill is worse than nothing.

Can it, and flush McCain's candidacy down the same hole.

Posted by Ric Locke | May 21, 2007 5:28 PM

Why is anybody paying attention to any of this? We all know what's going to happen.

The fence is DOA. Technical difficulties, goldbricking on the part of the builders, doesn't matter, they'll think up excuses not to build a foot of it.

The extra border guards will never be hired. All the qualified people are already doing security Kabuki for TSA, and even if the House funds it (two chances: slim and fat) the Civil Service people will drag their feet.

Background checks? It is to laugh. The Democrats will be busing people in by the hundred, timed to arrive at 4:59:30 PM. Instant approval. Employer sanctions? Buuuwahaha! Even if they did send the data in, who the * is gonna collate it? The Paperwork Fairy, no doubt.

Meanwhile the Press will be running nonstop sob stories about sick kids, undernourished adults, and crummy working conditions enforced by the damned Republicans.

In the end the political class gets cheap nannies and groundskeepers, "business" gets a boost to "the bottom line", and the rest of us get twelve million scabs to keep our wages down, plus a blanket invitation to the next twelve million and a tax hike to pay for it. This is like saying "the sun will rise tomorrow." Why are we paying attention to the liars who protest otherwise?

Regards,
Ric

Posted by Bill Faith | May 21, 2007 5:41 PM

Cloture at this point doesn't necessarily mean the bill becomes law (per Mr. Hewitt).

Has it occurred to anyone but me what a good choice Jeff Sessions would be for VP if enough people are dumb enough not to vote for Fred! in the primaries? (He'd still make a good VP but there's no way a Thompson/Sessions ticket would carry enough damyankee states to be elected.)

I added an excerpt an link at Amnesty, shamnesty. Maybe it'll die in the Senate -- Part 2.   

Posted by quickjustice | May 21, 2007 6:04 PM

Excuse me, but I have no idea whether I support this legislation or not. I haven't seen it. I've read some scary analyses of it, but I have no way to make my own judgment.

I can criticize this process, however. It's an atrocious back door, secret deal. We should punish those who insult our intelligence with their patronizing "trust us" attitudes.

I trusted them back in 1986. They broke their promises then. Why should I trust them now?

Simpson-Mazzoli is on the books. Why don't we try funding and enforcing it for a change?

Posted by lrs | May 21, 2007 6:37 PM

If a "virtual fence" worked, why are there so many foreign Al Queda and Iranians in Iraq?

I agree w. Penegnima regarding the HIB visas. When I started at a database corporation, there were a dozen consultants in my cost group and only 2 were for HIBs from India. 7 years later, when I resigned, there were a dozen consultants in my cost group and only 2 (including myself) were Americans -- everyone else were HIB visas. During that time we had layoffs and later rehires that were non-American, not to forget the move of development overseas. Were they better than their American counterparts -- nope, but they sure were cheaper.

Just imagine federal and defense software and databases being developed in India, Red China, or some other "friend" of the U.S.

We are quickly becoming a third world "service" country for tourists. Our manufacturing, industries (technical and non-technical), are additionally, fast disappearing overseas.

We taxpayers sponser students from India, Red China, and other "friendly" nations in our master and especially our doctorate programs. In our many of our science doctorate programs there are very few Americans. These American educated friendlies are then sent to work at our labs and goverment R&D facilities. Makes me worried, how about you?

And our schools are so busy teaching politically correct stupid stuff that they fail in teaching what is important -- like math, science, ENGLISH, reading, and how to think for oneself and to question. Global warming is a good example of a nation that is incapable of thinking for itself and jumping on the "Chicken Little" bandwagon.

Posted by lrs | May 21, 2007 6:40 PM

If a "virtual fence" worked, why are there so many foreign Al Queda and Iranians in Iraq?

I agree w. Penegnima regarding the HIB visas. When I started at a database corporation, there were a dozen consultants in my cost group and only 2 were for HIBs from India. 7 years later, when I resigned, there were a dozen consultants in my cost group and only 2 (including myself) were Americans -- everyone else were HIB visas. During that time we had layoffs and later rehires that were non-American, not to forget the move of development overseas. Were they better than their American counterparts -- nope, but they sure were cheaper.

Just imagine federal and defense software and databases being developed in India, Red China, or some other "friend" of the U.S.

We are quickly becoming a third world "service" country for tourists. Our manufacturing, industries (technical and non-technical), are additionally, fast disappearing overseas.

We taxpayers sponser students from India, Red China, and other "friendly" nations in our master and especially our doctorate programs. In our many of our science doctorate programs there are very few Americans. These American educated friendlies are then sent to work at our labs and goverment R&D facilities. Makes me worried, how about you?

And our schools are so busy teaching politically correct stupid stuff that they fail in teaching what is important -- like math, science, ENGLISH, reading, and how to think for oneself and to question. Global warming is a good example of a nation that is incapable of thinking for itself and jumping on the "Chicken Little" bandwagon.

This open arms to illegals bill is a continuation of the same dumbing of America. It is also the way to bankrupt this country both culturally and financially.

Posted by Stephen Macklin | May 21, 2007 6:45 PM

I have labeled this bill the Bipartisan Universal Lengthy Legislative Senate House Immigration Transformation Act.

And their rush to force it through congress does nothing to change that name.

Posted by Bruce Armstrong | May 21, 2007 6:49 PM

It was interesting to see that even the supporters are admitting that the bill isn't finished yet. Senator Kyl commented after the vote today that one of the first amendments would be an amendment in the nature of a substitution, to replace the entire text of the current bill with the "final" text. So who knows what plums will be snuck in between today and tomorrow?

Posted by Sandy P | May 21, 2007 8:17 PM

And Maverick didn't even vote.

Posted by Keemo | May 21, 2007 8:54 PM

Here is another example of our government going around the will of the people...

Told you so:

The Farmers Branch city ordinance banning apartments from renting to illegal immigrants won’t go into effect Tuesday as planned because a federal judge has issued a temporary restraining order stopping the city from enforcing the ordinance.

Voters on May 12 by a 2-to-1 ratio said that they wanted the law, which requires apartment managers or owners to obtain proof from prospective tenants that they are U.S. citizens or in the country legally. But lawyers representing three groups of plaintiffs challenged the ordinance in federal court last week seeking the temporary restraining order to stop enforcement.

I’m telling you, this issue is only going to end in organized armed conflict. The political class is utterly contemptuous of the will of the people and is encouraging an invasion of the United States.
-- The Ace (Polipundit)

Just like proposition 187 in California; politicians & judges simply go around the will of the people as if the ballots had never been cast.

Posted by Keemo | May 21, 2007 9:02 PM

The US Senate wants to grant American citizenship to 20 million fraudsters, forgers, and perjurers who’ve shown only contempt for America’s laws, borders, and sovereignty. To stop this from happening, please contact your senators. Their office phone numbers and e-mail addresses are right here. Calling works better than e-mailing. Please be polite in either case.

http://senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

Posted by unclesmrgol | May 21, 2007 10:29 PM

Now we know why Pelosi had to spend so much time reading a bill originating from her House -- after she signed it. I guess the Senate has the same disease -- vote first, read later.

Posted by the tapper | May 21, 2007 11:06 PM

The sad part of this whole situation is people talking about cheap labor. I ask you!!! do you think the illegals with Z-cards will settle for minimum wage....????NO NO NO. They will insist on the going rate and then take it to court with court appointed lawyers for representation and WIN. Employees will also be forced to pay SS and Employment compensation on their workforce......Not so rosy!!! The cost to the government will be trillions.in Human Services and educational funding...and who pays that????

Posted by stilichio | May 22, 2007 2:18 AM

"And if not, why not?"

You know perfectly well why - because the bill is a fraud, and they need to ram it through before the American people catches wind of it.

Posted by Pecozbill | May 22, 2007 3:39 AM

May 21st, 2007

Dear Friends;

I find my self so incensed at the current actions of our Congress in general and the Senate in particular with regards to their proposed amnesty program that I am sending a version of the following resolution to both of my (so called) Republican Senators and my Democrat House Representative. This is NOT a dumb-ass petition. Phone calls will work as well!

I forward it to you only in hopes that you will either excerpt any part of it you wish to forward to your representatives or at least pass it on to someone who might. If you forward it to ten people, Jesus won't whisper six good lotto numbers in your ear.... but it might keep the tax man out of your life or an armed felon away from your car, home or family.

Pecozbill

Dear Senator ________-

WHEREAS: a vast majority of incumbent members of the House and Senate have held those offices for the past eight or more years, and
WHEREAS: these incumbents have ignored the primary constitutional obligation of the federal government to it's citizenry - i.e. protecting the borders of the United States of America, and
WHEREAS: these incumbents now claim that our country has been so over run with illegal aliens during their tenure in office, that the only solution is to grant amnesty to them as a protected group of fifteen million or more,

NOW THEREFORE; be it resolved that each and every office incumbent of the Congress of the United States, both House and Senate, as Honorable Gentlemen and Ladies, should acknowledge their incompetency forthwith and either resign their office or withdraw their names from any re-election bids as a matter of honor and self respect; and failing that

Every law abiding, eligible voting citizen of the United States, whether by birth or naturalization, does herein set their hand that they will not ever cast a single vote for any incumbent of any political party that votes in the affirmative for an illegal amnesty bill that in anyway resembles that set forth this third week of May 2007, but the United States Senate.

This I do affirm,

Your (and my) Name


Posted by onlineanalyst | May 22, 2007 7:08 AM

The Senators that voted against Cloture and Against Amnesty in S. 1348

Senators that did not cast a vote
Not Voting - 8
Biden (D-DE)
Clinton (D-NY)
Dodd (D-CT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)
McCain (R-AZ)
Nelson (D-FL)
Obama (D-IL)

Look at that line up and note how many presidential wannabes cannot/ will not take a position. I guess that they are waiting for the poll results to come in. Not an ounce of leadership among any of them.

Posted by onlineanalyst | May 22, 2007 7:24 AM

More reasons that the amnesty bill smells like a suspicious piece of sleight-of-hand bull and that a law crafter by lawyers for lawyers is always suspect:

"Ken Boehm, Chairman of the National Legal and Policy Center (NLPC), today criticized the immigration bill crafted in secret by Senators led by Ted Kennedy (D-MA) and Arlen Specter(R-PA).

"Boehm said, "If passed, this bill will make taxpayers pay the legal bills for illegal aliens seeking amnesty. Tucked away on page 317 is a provision that would allow lawyers in the federally-funded legal services program to represent illegal aliens, which they are presently barred from doing."

"John Carlisle, NLPC's Director of Policy, said, "Many taxpayers will be chagrined to learn they may soon have to provide a lawyer for illegal aliens who should not be here in the first place. Activist lawyers, illegal aliens and government money are a bad mix.""

More here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20070522/pl_usnw/nlpc_says_immigration_bill_would_make_taxpayers_pay_legal_bills_of_illegal_aliens_seeking_amnesty

Posted by Angry Dumbo | May 22, 2007 10:52 AM

Hey, what happened to enforcement first?

Comprehensive reform later if enforcement happens.

The federal government refuses to enforce the laws we have. Btw, enforcing immigration laws is not racist. If so, passing this "comprehensive" reform will not make enforcement any less racist.

Until we agree that a healthy respect for the law is not racist (or "nativist"), immigration "reform" is not possible.

Posted by Angry Dumbo | May 22, 2007 11:00 AM

Please tell me how 1,000 pages of new legislation is "more" likely to be enforced if the federal government has not enforced the simple and outdated immigration laws we currently have?