Captain's Quarters -

Fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly, Jimmy Carter's gotta be Jimmy Carter.

But of all the Jimmy Carters in the world, he's the Jimmy Carteriest. And that's not a compliment.

In this country doesn't "voting" count for anything? Should this government support the will of that party which was legally "elected" into power? Who was that again?

It is as if Carter is still campaigning to be thought of as picking up Neville Chamberlain's "mantle".

Jimmy, relax. It's yours already.

Jimmy quit building houses when he found out they were giving them to poor people instead of dropping them on jews.

Cap'n Ed : So let's get this straight. Bush's refusal to engage with a terrorist group -- one that has long been on the State Department list of outlawed terrorist organizations -- is "criminal". Wouldn't it literally have been a criminal act to engage with Hamas? Federal law prohibits such direct contacts and the transmission of aid to terrorist groups such as Hamas.

Is it possible that a policy of engagement with Hamas would involve taking them off the State Department list of terrorist groups?

Well, he IS "History's Greatest Monster" . What do you expect?

Monkei, all kinds of evil foreign governments have been duly "elected" by their peoples. Doesn't make them any less evil.

James, taking Hamas off the State Department list of terrorist groups would require Hamas to foreswear terrorist activity first. They have had the opportunity to do so and have failed to do so. You're putting the cart before the horse. When a group stops behaving as a terrorist group, then we can deal with them. Not until.

Jimmer Carter: impotent Palpatine.

Well, he IS "History's Greatest Monster" . What do you expect?

In this country doesn't "voting" count for anything? Should this government support the will of that party which was legally "elected" into power? Who was that again?

Posted by: Monkei at June 19, 2007 11:16 AM

....and ONCE again, the Leftist, Anti-American, Pro-Jihadi Buffoon, comes in with comment that shows why Leftists should just go sulk in a corner somewhere, and not attempt to infect normal people with their filth..

In this country doesn't "voting" count for anything? Should this government support the will of that party which was legally "elected" into power? Who was that again?

Posted by: Monkei at June 19, 2007 11:16 AM

....and ONCE again, the Leftist, Anti-American, Pro-Jihadi Buffoon, comes in with comment that shows why Leftists should just go sulk in a corner somewhere, and not attempt to infect normal people with their filth..

Is it possible that a policy of engagement with Hamas would involve taking them off the State Department list of terrorist groups?

Sure, but consider the ramifications of such a move. No one is arguing, I think, that Hamas doesn't engage in terrorist practices-- its obvious that they do, and thus to take them off of the list of terrorist groups, while perhaps technically legal, doesn't solve the problem at all-- Hamas is, after all, on that list for a reason, and although political expediency might seem to suggest that any easy way to engage with Hamas diplomatically would be to simply remove them from the list, it does nothing to change their nature as an organization that continually engages in terrorist practices-- which they no doubt would continue to do while the erstwhile "partner in peace" with the United States.

The refusal of the United States to deal with Hamas even after they were elected was predictable and correct-- consider that, although there was much uproar over the decision to refuse to deal with a democratically elected government, the reasons for doing so remained precisely what they were before Hamas was elected-- namely, that the group engages in widespread (and, I might add illegal) actions against deliberately non-military targets-- and yet Carter has the utter gall to suggest that using this a a justification for not talking openly is "illegal"?

Between two democratic governments, I'll take the one that doesn't engage with political organizations that exist (at least in part) to slaughter non-combatants en masse rather than those organizations themselves-- especially after Hamas has effectively stolen the rest of the election, not by fraud, but with the barrel of a gun.

Q: "In this country doesn't "voting" count for anything? Should this government support the will of that party which was legally "elected" into power? Who was that again?"

A: George Bush is a Republican.

Hope that helps Monkei

The government should be responsible to its people through free and fair elections, supporting the rule of the people by the people for the people. The people should ensure that it is a rule of law and morality.

The government is responsibe to the people, and the people in turn (in taking over the historical place of royalty, who ruled by divine right), are responsible to a Higher Authority -- call the Higher Authority morality if you like.

Clyde: When a group stops behaving as a terrorist group, then we can deal with them.

That's a policy question. I don't have any quarrels with it, but to argue, as the Captain did, that policy cannot and should not be changed simply because existing executive orders would have to be changed ... well, the logic is a little suspect!

In other words, free and fair elections (if that's indeed what the Palestinians had) are no blank check to a people to wreak whatever havoc they please. They can elect Hamas, and we can tell them where to get off. They can learn the lessons of freedom and responsibility for their choices.

james asks: Is it possible that a policy of engagement with Hamas would involve taking them off the State Department list of terrorist groups?

It is also possible , and more likely probable that if you reward Hamas in such a way there will be plenty of other groups that will use indicriminate violence as a 'bargaining chip'(not that there is shortage of such now). Of course, they will be the media's darlings, painted as the underdog, worthy of sympathy and support.

DO you really think this would be a positive developement?

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." Stupidity doesn't adequately explain Carter anymore, he's now evil.

I think the Cap'n could well have bolded another section of quote in the update...

Israel, which has no interest in letting masses of Gazans pass through its territory and possibly destabilize the quieter West Bank, has refused to let most of them in, saying their lives were not in danger. ...

... and pointed out that the civilians were attacked in short order, under the eyes of the people that current US policy champions.

Bush has Hamas pegged . . . .

But why is he so hopelessly blind to the actions of Fatah? I can't stand Carter or Hamas, but how on Earth can we justify providing money (80 million) to pay for security for Fatah?? They're terrorists for cripes sikes.

Go here to read about one of Jimmy Carter's favorite UN projects:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28369

Let's see here, the Nazis were duly and properly elected - never mind that they behaved like gangsters afterward - and they were certainly better organized than the Norwegians, the Poles, the Czechs, or - alors! - ze French.

So, Mr Carter, why on Earth would we consider supporting that madman Churchill and his imperial cabal?

Where does this fantasy come from that somehow if a government is elected it's somehow saintly, and in the interests of the West to lick their boots?

Sorry, dreamers, but if a people - for whatever reason - elects a government with policies clearly hostile to our interests it's entirely appropriate for us to respond in kind.

For once in my life, I agree with Jimmah.

Let's stop favoring one over the other - let's let them keep killing each other for awhile, and we'll stay out of it.

I love it!!! It is isreal's and the U.S.'s fault Hamas murdered Palestinians in cold blood. Because Isreal wouldn't let them into their country without checks, the guilt for Hamas' actions is on.......Bush's hands.

This is incredible logic. Thank you Monkei and Mr. Hymas for showing the pure hatred that motivates you.

Once again, when do we get to start questioning the patriotism of people who are suggesting we take actions that are A) illegal, B) immoral and C) against the best interest of the national security of the United States?

Jimmy Carter's credibility on Middle East negotiations is roughly equal to that of the ostrich on matters of round-the-world flight.

In a sense, Carter does provide a simple road map to what Bush should be doing: whatever the exact and total opposite of what the worst President of the 20th century says should be what the Presidents of the 21st Century should strive to accomplish.

For once in my life, I agree with Jimmah.

Let's stop favoring one over the other - let's let them keep killing each other for awhile, and we'll stay out of it.

James Hymas: The political cost of attempting to reclassify Hamas is far too high. The President and the Congress just got their collective rear ends handed to them over the immigration-bill fiasco. That's nothing compared to what would happen if State tried to normalize relations with Hamas.

As for the civilians who were attacked at the closed border crossing: (1) They voted for their attackers, so I'm a bit lacking in sympathy. Choices have consequences, and the Palis have for far, far too long been shielded from the consequences of their choices. (2) The fact that Hamas is willing too insert armed insurgents into a refugee stream (something I predicted on Wizbang last week) demonstrates exactly why Israel is wise to not open the crossing.

Interesting. My local garbage wrapper, Toledo Blade, has the same editorial out today. Is this the new marching orders for the left, "Negotiate with Hamas, never mind their repeated stated goal of Israel's destruction"?

Sheik Carter for Caliph!

Allahu akbar!

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/006239.php

elections have consequences

Interesting. My local garbage wrapper, Toledo Blade, has the same editorial out today. Is this the new marching orders for the left, "Negotiate with Hamas, never mind their repeated stated goal of Israel's destruction"?

Cousin Dave: Keep Hamas on the list, take them off the list ... it's a policy decision. If it's to be discussed, let's at least discuss it logically, that's all I ask for.

As for the civilians who were attacked at the closed border crossing: (1) They voted for their attackers

They did? Every single one of them? Out of their own free will, with no coercion or other monkey-business? Even the kids? Your information is better than mine, obviously.

The fact that Hamas is willing too insert armed insurgents into a refugee stream (something I predicted on Wizbang last week) demonstrates exactly why Israel is wise to not open the crossing.

Searches at the borders are pretty routine at this point - surely you've seen the pictures taken at the border crossings with the guys lifting their shirts up to show there's no explosive belt underneath.

James I. Hymas:

In response to the point that they "voted for their attackers":

"They did? Every single one of them? Out of their own free will, with no coercion or other monkey-business? Even the kids? Your information is better than mine, obviously. "

Riiiight. So, according to Jimmy, we need to recognize Hamas because they were freely elected. And you defend Jimmy's point by saying that those votes were likely coerced. Cognitive dissonance much? Just damn.

Qwinn

I love it!!! It is isreal's and the U.S.'s fault Hamas murdered Palestinians in cold blood. Because Isreal wouldn't let them into their country without checks, the guilt for Hamas' actions is on.......Bush's hands.

This is incredible logic. Thank you Monkei and Mr. Hymas for showing the pure hatred that motivates you.

Monkei,

Last I saw, the party elected into "power" was the Republicans. Check the party of the Commander In Chief of the United States of America.

Hymas,

There's a reason Hamas in on the terror list, isn't there? Don't they attack civilians, as the Captain so adroitly pointed out? Don't they use civilians as cover for attacks, as we just saw as well? Why should the Israelis allow anyone from Gaza into Israel? Note also that Gaza has a border with Egypt. Why isn't Egypt allowing them out?

Hamas didn't come to power in a palace coup -- the Palestinians freely elected them into power. They knew what Hamas was about -- and they approved by electing them. They now have to live with the government they have created, just as the Germans did during WWII.

Karma works, plain and simple. What goes around comes around. Sometimes the really evil things take a little longer to be rectfied but when it happens, it is often epic. Other famous freely elected leaders include Saddam, Big and Little Kim, Chavez, Carter----we had to live with the consequences of our collective stupidity now it is time for the Palis.

unclesmrgol: Those are indeed better reasons for keeping Hamas on the list than offered by the Cap'n.

"Freely elected"? The average Palestinian - one not paid by foreigners to run around with Kalashnikovs, I mean - had a choice between two unpalatable alternatives, as far as I can tell. But if blaming the victims makes you feel morally superior, you've got lots of company.

Jimmy is just upset that the other half of his Nobel Peace Prize will shortly be up on e-Bay, devaluing his half.

James: The "average Palistinian" overwhelmingly supported the party whose #1 campaign point (indeed, nearly their only campaign point) was the extermination of Israel. I don't know how much plainer it could be. And those "women and children"? They're either willing suicide bombers, human shields, or men hiding in burkas. Anyone with any sense at all left Gaza a long time ago. The ones who are left are the ones who supported the indiscriminate killing of Jews, and now want to avoid the consequences of that choice.

And yes, I'm absolutely certain about that.

In a "brilliant" manuever, the Saud's so to it that their evil religion got named with enough confusion that most people don't recognize if for what it is. RADICAL ISLAM = SAUD's.

Amazing disguises. Things you can do with checkered tablecloths. And, positions on the map.

But the winners in gazoo? Religious freaks. Willing to DIE. While all Fart'ah has are blokes who get jobs off of lists. NOT LOOKING TO DIE!

Oh, they lost.

While Bush is still the Realtor for the Sauds.

We've got 18 months of this nonsense left. And, it's really like watching foot dragging. Or worse. A piece of chalk screaming across the blackboard.

Don't forget that Condi instructed Lt. General Keith Dayton to see to it that $60-million in American armaments went into Gazoo. Didn't even have to be dragged in through the tunnels.

Olmert has no ability to stop American military hardward from reaching gazoo. He can't stop the crap that gets dragged thru the tunnels, from eygpt, either. Though I'd guess it's really the stock and trade of smugglers. And, their hallucinagens.

But what's Dayton's excuse?

One thing about Olmert's trip. It means James Baker finally figured out that Olmert IS Israel's prime minister. Because? When Arik first stroked, Condi called Olmert and said there were new "rules." No longer would there be a phone from the prime minister's office to Bush. Everything had to go through State.

So Olmert just took the humiliation. Just like he took Winograd's.

As Arik Sharon said: In Israel, politics is carried out on a merry-go-round. IF you don't get off? Your star will shine, again. And, you'll get elected back into the driver's seats of office.

Now, what really had and has James Baker on a tear! Is that in the early 1990's, to show how much he hated James Baker, Arik would drop in another settlement on the West Bank. This is how those areas grew to have more Jews. Among the arabs.

It's a ticklish situation, because Israel is stuffed with arabs, anyway. Every 5th person you meet in Israel is an arab WITH citizenship. (While the group called the palestinians, have no citizenship rights whatsoever, be they in eygpt. jordan. syria. Or lebanon. In Irak? The one's Saddam imported have been tossed out.

What will hamas do with all the goodies Dayton put there for Fart'ah? How should I know? I don't guess on events in the future.

But I do notice that Olmert picked Barak. And, this tightens up the Defense ministry. And, professionals are not gonna signal ya, in advance, what their options on.

Oh. Most of those turkeys in gazoo are not religious fanatics. Even if they dress in the cleanest clothes; as you see in photo ops. And, pose. Gazoo, it seems has a wardrobe department. You show up there, before you go out into the streets. And, pose. Just up Reuter's alley.

It is a premptive strike.

jimmy carter's hate for america started very slowly at first as it was originally directed at reagan. as history continued to demean him during those eight years of the reagan presidency it became all too much. smoldering, it turned to hate for america in general. he violated every rule of decorum for presidential behavior while his pathetic supporters cheered him on. it got so that even clinton couldn't stand him.

now after so many salutations for murdering thugs worldwide carter himself has turned into one(thug). he is pure hate parading as a sympathetic creature. he is now, and secretly always was, a repugnant little man of no consequence.

as mark twain so famously quipped about a funeral he couldn't attend, "while i'm sorry i"ll miss it, i approve of the proceedings".

Cousin Dave: There are some who say that Fatah corruption may have had an influence on the election. Do you have any evidence for your assertion?

If you could provide some detail on the ease of leaving Gaza, that too would be appreciated; I've seen some comment otherwise but am not familiar with the source.

patrick,

Well said - much to agree with there. That plus the fact that there seems to be significant proof that Jimmy Carter has gone completely insane.

This ludicrous statement about Hamas Thugs and Assasins and what was it.....two days ago...that Carter called for the U.S. to recognize the Maoists in some hill top country...(Nepal, i think).

He needs a custom fitted jacket. Preferrably white and a bit long in the sleeves.

"It is as if Carter is still campaigning to be thought of as picking up Neville Chamberlain's mantle."

No, Carter yearns for the Vidkun Quisling mantle.

I wonder how much longer it will be before peanut-bitch starts making appearances with Castro and Chavez.

Maybe Armegeddon-eye-jab in Iran?

Sharing a cup of coffee with Osama?

At this point I suspect he might have found much to admire in Stalin or Hitler.

When you look into the mirror peanut-bitch, do you recognize Satan staring back at you?

Two-state solution, finally. Gaza is the first fully functional "palestinian" state. Totally Juden-free, just as the world community required. Well, I think it's weird to demand Israel to accomodate the Arabs from Gaza now - after all, they are on their own. Fair is fair.

I think the guards should tell the Hamazians knocking at the door....."stop shooting at us....we're not Jews!"

Jimmuh wouldn't know a human right from a human left - or left cross, for that matter.

Hey elections have consequences....

unclesmrgol:
"Don't they use civilians as cover for attacks..."

You say that Hamas does this, and they are therefore terrorists and should be on the US terrorist list and not be allowed to participate in elections. Do you think the US should be consistent with this policy? Do you think that any group that uses human shields should be on the US terrorist list and not be allowed to run a government?

cousin dave:
"The 'average Palistinian' overwhelmingly supported the party whose #1 campaign point (indeed, nearly their only campaign point) was the extermination of Israel."

Can you show me where this "#1 campaign point" is in the Hamas electoral platform? I cannot find it:

http://www.israelipalestinianprocon.org/Treaties/hamas2006platform.html

You say that Hamas does this, and they are therefore terrorists and should be on the US terrorist list and not be allowed to participate in elections.

No one said this. Hamas is free to run for election all the live-long day. If the Palis choose to elect a group of genocidal butchers like Hamas, however, we aren't required to approve. This isn't all that terribly complicated, but a certain bloc of posters here seems to be struggling mightily with the concept.

Do you think that any group that uses human shields should be on the US terrorist list and not be allowed to run a government?

Your statement suggests the impending arrival of some "gotcha" exposing a close ally of the United States that uses human shields and engages in state-sponsored terrorism in the manner of Hamas and Fatah. Good luck with that.

Secondly and to reiterate, the whole "not allowed to run a government" thing is tedious in its cluelessness about foreign policy and a nation's exclusive purpose for it (to pursue its own best interests), especially when it comes to the bloodthirsty barbarians in "Palestine". Hamas can run a government. Hamas can even be democratically elected to run a government. But the United States is not required to send foreign aid to said government or even have diplomatic relations with it if doing so is not deemed in the best interests of the United States. Again, not terribly complicated.

And, frankly, only someone whose moral compass is as irreparably damaged as Jimmy Carter's would suggest that working hand-in-hand with a group as anti-American and fundamentally evil as Hamas is somehow in our best interests.

I saw that little rant of Carter's on Fox News, today.

He is soooooooo disgusting.

Hamas is good people - America has an obligation to support them and prop them up, since they are such good people.

I'd be glad to pay Hamas to take Carter off our hands.

That's a policy question. I don't have any quarrels with it, but to argue, as the Captain did, that policy cannot and should not be changed simply because existing executive orders would have to be changed ... well, the logic is a little suspect!

Posted by: James I. Hymas at June 19, 2007 12:00 PM

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Not NEARLY as suspect as dealing with a terrorist organization that drags dissidents behind a car for several hours, just because the Democrat Socialists are satisfied that their election into power was "legal" and "above board".

That would be ridiculous.

I think the Cap'n could well have bolded another section of quote in the update...

Israel, which has no interest in letting masses of Gazans pass through its territory and possibly destabilize the quieter West Bank, has refused to let most of them in, saying their lives were not in danger. ...

... and pointed out that the civilians were attacked in short order, under the eyes of the people that current US policy champions.

Posted by: James I. Hymas at June 19, 2007 12:33 PM
***********************

Oh please explain yourself for THIS baloney.

Like the same people wouldn't have been equally subject to attack INSIDE Israel by the same people YOU champion - HAMAS???

And ISRAEL owes them sanctuary - WHY??????????

Wait. One day you will see the sanctuary that Conservative American neighborhoods will afford to you Liberals.

hehehehehehe

But if blaming the victims makes you feel morally superior, you've got lots of company.

Posted by: James I. Hymas at June 19, 2007 3:58 PM
*******************

If EXCUSING the PERPETRATORS makes you feel intellectually superior, you have a rude awakening coming your way, and prolly a job as bell boy for Stalin, at his current establishment.

VJay:
“…we aren't required to approve.”

True. We don’t have to approve. And we are free to withhold aid. Actions such as this, however, only make Hamas stronger. Hamas owes their immense popularity today to actions like this from USrael over the past 20 years. Most Israelis were happy to see Hamas entering the political arena, because they knew that it would help to stop their attacks. Once Hamas is forced out of politics, they will return to violence and suicide attacks as their only route to resisting occupation. This, or course, is what the Israeli government wants. Peace would mean that Israel would have to define its borders, which they never want to do. Constant war means constant opportunities to acquire land. It worked for a long time, but the balance of power is shifting. It’s not 1967 ant more. The IDF has spent too much time shooting at children throwing rocks, and now when they face real fighters, they get their asses kicked. (A few thousand Hezbollah fighters did the job beautifully). Constant aggression from USrael will only backfire, and Carter knows this. His comments stem from thinking about US interests, not the interests of Palestinians or Hamas.

“Your statement suggests the impending arrival of some "gotcha" exposing a close ally of the United States that uses human shields…”

Your right. It’s Israel. If the US is going to oppose Hamas, why not just say that the reason is because Hamas opposes Israel, who is our ally. Making up this crap about human shields and killing civilians really sounds silly when Israel (and many other US allies, and the US itself) are doing the same things much more efficiently.

I can only say that if Uncle Wolf did not make to fight two fronts now the problem of Hamas,Palestinian,sionism would not be!
Unfortunately his strategy was completely wrong therefore nowadays we have the giant imperialist U.S.A. dominating the world and,unfortunately,only the islam and the arabic people can destroy the american ideology!