Captain's Quarters -

Once it gets by cloture all the security elements will be stripped out in committee or ignored like all the other security laws already on the books.

The only way to get this problem solved is to break up the bill. Start with the more popular elements, such as building the fence, and work towards the more unpopular. Once everyone sees you are serious and not playing a shell game, things can get straightened out. But not this way.

The bill will indeed be stripped of any meaningful border security elements in conference. Once cloture is achieved in the Senate the game is over. NOBODY believes border security will be achived by this bill. Everyone realizes the border security part is just window dressing used to secure the instant legalization of illegals.

They aren't fooling anyone anymore. This will be the final nail in the coffin of the Republican Party. More importantly of course is that it will bring down the country as we now know it.

The only security provisions I will trust is 'security first' then consideration of all other issues.

The government has absolutely no credibility on enforcement.

The only thing that will truly satisfy me is if this bill is pulled and replaced with a series of smaller bills dealing with individual immigration issues, with plenty of time for vetting in committee and debate on the floor. None of this nonsense of trying to ram through with minimal debate a bill so big, unwieldy, and incomprehensible that it makes the EU constitution look like a bullet-point memo.

Surveys have shown that the broad majority of Americans --Republican, Independent, and Democratic-- want security taken care of first. Then we'll be willing to talk about normalization.

I wonder if the Senate and the White House are capable any more of legislating transparently. As we have seen with earmarks and pork, the secretive system is seemingly entrenched and untractable, and efforts to reform it are facing massive resistance.

The imjmigration bill was put together in secret and much of the lobbying on it has also been done in secret. We see the headlines about this amendment or that tweak, but we really don't know what the White House offered Senators, nor what the Senators are offering each other, to pass the damned thing.

The only thing that is obvious and overt is the massive hatred of American citizens for this bill, and the implicit threat that anyone who votes for it is gonna lose his/her job.

It would see that in a Darwinian sort of way, if denizens of DC want to stay alive and keep their jobs they would listen to the people who put them there. But we simply don't know what sorts of bribes are being offered - or skeletons are being threatened to be drug from closets - that will influence the process in the capital. I would love to know, for example, why Bush is being so stupidly blind in his support of this Frankensteinian travesty of legislation.

I've got a better idea;
How about the Republican party tell Kyl to start acting like a republican, or start thinking about how he's going to hold office without being in the republican party...

Oh, this is funny. Trent Lott PAID Dick Morris money for the advice that he's attracting hispanics like flies.

And, at some point on this magical time line, Lott thought he had 70 senators in tow. NOPE.

As to his compatriot, Lindsay Graham; his popularity in South Carolina has plummetted down to 31%. Where he's also carrying a 40% disapproval rating.

Now, the vote for cloture comes on Tuesday.

And, again, the idiots in DC, who are so dependent on the old media; keep getting hit over their heads by what travels on the Internet.

Oh, boy. Do we have a mess in DC. How will it look in 2008? I'm with DeLay on this one. The GOP needs to form itself, better. Away from their stars, like Newt, and Lott, and Lindsay Graham; because they seem to count only ONE HOUSE, without any awareness of dealing with "subjects." Yet, they want to keep their elite seats.

Wouldn't be the first time politicians get ensnared in the netting provided by their consultants.

In other words? What would you do if Dick Morris told you that going for amnesty would grow your party and make you popular? Isn't it up there with toe sucking?

Besides, Mitch McConnell now looks scared to death. While, when Hastert dot hit, he was clueless.

What's it gonna take to educate these public servants, I do not know.

But no one is going to go anywhere until people who do business in DC realize how to play a better game of COMPROMISE.

Personally, I can't wait for DeLay to get back in the game. By 2008? Why not? He's the only professional the DC GOP ever had.

"The only thing that will truly satisfy me is if this bill is pulled and replaced with a series of smaller bills dealing with individual immigration issues, with plenty of time for vetting in committee and debate on the floor."

I'm with Anthony on this one. The border security measures need to be put into a separate bill and passed, holding the measures this country needs to protect national security as hostages or trading chips needs to stop. Now.

Are you listening, Congressional Republicans? Mitch McConnell should be the point man on this.

but will it be enough to satisfy the opponents of the bill?

No. Simple fact: the American people have no reason to expect this Congress to deal honestly with them on immigration.

Border security starts with a purge of incumbents.

The below is prime example of the sheer arrogance of our "leadership" in Congress:

Senate Minority leader (and Amnesty Senator from Mississippi) Trent Lott, who spoke to
reporters yesterday. "I've had my phones jammed for three weeks. Yesterday I had three people answering them continuously all day. To think that you're going to intimidate a senator or any senator into voting one way or the other by gorging your phones with phone calls -- most of whom don't even know where Gulfport, Mississippi, is -- is not an effective tactic. But it's their
right to do that."

Trent Lott, like so many other Senators, honestly believes himself to be better than the governed. This bill, if nothing else, has highlighted to the American people just how absolutely out of touch and removed from the "governed" our Congress has become. I would also like to point out that the results of this sell out of America will not be felt by Senator Lott or his elitist peers in Congress. They will, on the other hand, be felt by the tax payer for years to come.

They STILL don't get it!

The government has ZERO credibility on this issue --- no matter how many things they put in to make it "sweeter" or sound better, people don't beleive that they will ACTUALLY enforce any of them. They are all just empty promises to be tossed away after the bill is passed.

The objective is mass amnesty and all of this other stuff is just window dressing to fool the rubes out here.

Captain, sorry for repeating.

But I don't feel it is fair to suggest the Bush Administration did not take Border Security 'seriously', for they did indeed tighten-improve Border Security even before 9-11.

They increased funding, fought (the ACLU - Environmentalists) to complete the San Diego Fence with Rep. D. Hunter, provided more Border Guards, improved deportation times, etc.

Certainly more is needed, but just because they didn't do as much as some want, doesn't mean they were not responsible.

I know I am repeating, but the conjecture suggests a very negative view, with someone who has actually improved the status they inherited.

It simply isn't fair and paints a poor picture.

Just because we disagree with certain points with someone, does not make them negligent.

Especially when we are dealing with Government, which is hard to produce some solid results.

Bottom line, President Bush and this Administration has improved Border Security after 9-11.

They don't get any credit for it, because the hype is thick.

The President and the Republicans in Congress when they held the Majority, provided a pure Border Fence Bill, and were not rewarded for it.

There is an interesting commerical saying 'where is the fence?'...

But of course, no one should have expected the Democrat Majority to fund a Border Fence passed by Republicans, and thus, those who did not defend the Republican Majority and wanted this fence only hurt their interest.

Something odd about the failure of Conservatives to recognize personal responsibility these days.

I commend the progress in shaping the Immigration Reform Bill, and stopping the problematic offering that it represents, but feel it could be done without the ugly hyperbole and vitriol.

There are some very misguided conceptions running around, and many are empowering the Democrat Liberals.

For example, see this comment on H. Hewitt's fine site:

"...we don't need the GOP to win. We improved Congress last November..."

http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/g/81348bc0-d634-4f28-ac01-bb14effe519a

* this is absurd, as putting Reid and Pelosi in control of Congress is NOT an improvement of any kind.

Some have let their frustrations get the best of them.

Some are not seeing things clearly, as the only thing keeping Democrats from raising taxation, increasing obscene spending, appeasing Iran-N.Korea-Syria-al Qaeda, is this Republican President and the GOP Members of Congress.

I tried to remind some of the Bull Moose Memory, when Moderates led by TDR split the Republican Party, empowering the election of the Progressive Democrat named WW.

Today it is those who feel they are more Conservative, who are threatening to undermine the Republican Party, and give the Democrat Liberal Agenda victory in 2008.

We had a dry run in Nov. 2006, and it has been a disaster, as the Democrats continue to try to weaken Our ability to fight the GWOT.

A great deal of this hyperbole and hostility, comes from a misrepresentation of the Bush Administration's efforts and record.

It simply isn't fair or objective.

One Conservative I ran into called this President a 'liberal'...

It is mindless, for no Liberal would ever have cut taxation.

Everyone has handled immigration poorly, just as they did Dubai, etc., etc...

We have to do better.

I always wonder how many posters on this topic are living outside the West coast. And freaking out because you realized a few years ago that Jose and Juanita are living on the other side of town. Well, I sympathize with you, but if no bill is passed, and status quo lives on, the situation will only further deteriorate.

I've seen this problem evolve in California under leaders from both political parties. It's been a sickening process to watch given the lack of effective change to stem the flow of illegal alieans.. Not that I hold a grudge against Hispanic immigrants. A vast majority that I see in this sate are hard-working and family oriented, and almost always hold menial jobs that other immigrants and regular Americans are unwilling to take.

Border security, though, isn't how the problem to fixed. You have to deal with this issue by addressing the most powerful force at work- the market. The supply of jobs available to illegals means that illegal immigrants will continue to find a way across the massive southern border no matter how many billions are invested in security. Instead, invest money in detecting fraudulent documents and cracking down on the employers who hire illegals. These actions, in turn, will reduce the supply of jobs and the flood of illegals will be greatly reduced. There is empirical evidence of this effect working.

In California, the problem is that the all-powerful agri-business lobby is the largest beneficiary of illegals, and it has consistently stood in the way of political reform and tougher regulations. I think the other problem is that most Americans who talk tough about illegal immigration are addicted to low prices- and if you take the illegal workforce out of the equation, the price of food, household maintenance, dining out, and all kinds of services go up significantly. Are Americans willing to swallow the bitter pill? Look at the budget deficit- people expect something for nothing. I have real doubts.

Bottom line, President Bush and this Administration has improved Border Security after 9-11.

Right. Legislation passed by Congress after 2001 in accordance with the 9-11 Commission called for and fully funded a significant increase in the size of the Border Patrol. Instead of effectively staffing up, Bush does nothing for years and then calls in the National Guard at the last minute. It's hard to image how an important mandate could be implemented more incompetently.

The legislative process, such as it is, surrounding the attempted passage of this abortion-of-a-bill has been akin to Dr. Frankenstein repeatedly switching out brains and body parts in his monster to "get the perfect result."

The problem is, of course, that no matter how much much Dr. Frankenstein tweaks his creation, it still develops a mind of its own and turns on him.

I'm beginning to think the only way we'll ever develop a truly comprehensive and effectivesolution to illegal immigration will be to fire every single senator and congressman--the innocent as well as the guilty--and totally restock Capitol Hill with fresh faces who are automatically term-limited and who are fully aware to whom they're beholden.

Even better, let's also make sure the staffers and lobbyists are also swept out and term-limited as well. I daresay that nothing concentrates one's mind like a good old-fashioned purge.

No, it'll never happen...but I can dream, can't I?

'Building the fence' or sanctioning employers who hire illegals is a false choice. There is no reason why you can't do both.

What nobody seems to appreciate, is that turning off the job magnet can be even more effective than any border fence. If someone is determined to get here, they can do it, fence or no fence.

So until there's a new requirement for a forge-proof work document that has to be officially authenticated, every time, with stiff penalties for not doing so, the job magnet is still on, and I predict any fence will be extraordinarily ineffective until something is also done to turn off the job magnet. Next, do we mine our beaches maybe?

As I said here, this 'olive branch' is meaningless. Last year, President Bush signed into law a bill that authorizes & funds the building of 870 miles of fences. Thus far, they've built 13 miles. In other words, they can enact this law & the Bush administration can enforce the laws in a less than vigorous manner.

NO THANKS!!!

The increased enforcement is a step in the right direction but why not just pass those provisions in a separate bill? The simple fact is that no matter how much enforcement the bill calls for it's still up to the Executive branch to actually do the enforcing and we have a Chief Executive who'll drag his feet all the way. If there's no hope for an enforcement only bill right now it's better to just not do anything and hope this whole fiasco has enough people upset enough to elect some congresscritters and a Chief Exec who believe in enforcement next year.

I added a link to your post to my 2006.06.23 "No Illegal Left Behind" Roundup.

IF the current laws were being strictly enforced we wouldn't be having this discussion. Government institutions along with private companies are IGNORING the law in order to accommodate SPANISH speaking ILLEGALS. Not just ignoring, but pandering by having dual language everything. And, if they can't read, they’ll even ensure they have help in filling out forms for benefits, etc. Tax payer dollars are also being used to set up safe havens and job placement offices in "sanctuary" cities. From the President on down enforcement doesn't seem to matter. Ironically, the President talks about democracy and the "rule" of the law, yet is more than willing to allow law breakers to run roughshod over our country in order to fill the pockets of big business.

Security on the border, along with enforcement of existing laws against criminals (which is exactly what ILLEGALS are) would go a long way in slowing the flow. Take away the carrot and they won't come. After all, as we've seen, they don't want to become Americans, they feel we owe them and are here to TAKE what is owed. Pro-ILLEGALs talk about the hit our economy would take if laws were enforced. Well, you know what it will rebound and adjust. That’s what free markets do. The end result of not having to pay for a new under class will far outweigh any negative in my opinion. It would also go along way in forcing Mexico in particular to make serious societal changes. As it sits right now and if this shamnesty bill gets passed, we are the welfare blanket for all of Central and South America. America doesn’t OWE them anything and should not be forced to take care of their underclass. Their societies are based on the wealthy landowner and peon worker hierarchy (thanks Spain). Time for a major overhaul in THEIR systems. And it will only happen, when OUR laws are enforced and their poor are not allowed to flood our country.

The only way to ensure that the Amnesty Bill is defeated for 40 brave Senators to Vote NO on Cloture
For the revised S1639 Illegal Immigration Amnesty Bill as this is what the American people are clearly in favor of. The
truth is that the revised bill S-1639 cannot be helped by any of the proposed amendments
as it is beyond repair. Further the Bill S-1639
will result in so many bad consequences for our Nation including but not limited
to:

--- Bankrupting Social Security

--- Taxes Will Need to Go Up In Order To Pay For all of the Benefits that the Newly
Legalized Illegal Immigrants Will Become Eligible For Once The Bill Becomes Law.

--- Our Infrastructure Of Schools, Hospitals and Justice Systems Will Further Deteriorate
as Millions Of Additional People Will Be Enticed To Come Here Once the Amnesty Bill
Becomes Law.

--- Allows Terrorists From Terrorist States To More Easily Become Legal and Thus
Benefit From Full Constitutional Rights That Will Make It Easier For The Terrorists
To Plan And Carry Out Attacks Against Us.

-- Legal USA Citizens Wages Will Go Down As They Will Face Competition From The
Millions Of New Workers That Will Be Enticed To Our Nation Once The Bill Is Passed.

-- President Bush's Claim That Illegal Immigrants Would Be A Net Economic Gain
To The USA Is False. See Below:

"Borjas applies his own calculations to the CEA claims - all the more interesting
as the Council’s formulas and econometric methods are derived from Borjas’s participation
in the original NAS study and his 1995 paper. Sticking with the CEA numbers Borjas
shows how the 30 billion dollar gain is offset by an implied wage loss of 350 billion
to native borne workers. And when you add the two numbers, he shows that it gives
(nearly) a 400 billion dollar a year benefit to employers.

- The 30 billion dollar net gain does NOT include the cost of social services, which
would be a loss.

- And Borjas concluded: “The same factors that determine the size of the net gain
for the United States also determine the size of the wage loss for American workers.
The larger the losses, the more beneficial immigration is for the United States.”

He wryly notes that when stated that way, the supporters of immigration are strangely
silent."

The solution to our current Illegal Immigration problem is clear. Build the already
approved border fence and enforce our borders and current laws.

These SHYSTERS have totally destroyed their own credibility, and NOTHING is going to restore it but some RIGHT ACTIONS - like sending the Illegal aliens home PERMANENTLY, SECURING OUR BORDERS, CLEANING UP THE RECONQUISTAS - and LOWERING TAXES, and ENCOURAGING ENERGY PRODUCTION in America for America, and RESTORING our First, Second, AND PROPERTY RIGHTS - and cleansing their PROPAGANDA out of our Public Schools and universities.

They have a lot of WRONG ACTION AND CONSEQUENCES to make right, in America, and we are ready to sic the sheriff of Maricopa County on the whole lot of them for TREASON!

And we won't be taking them before FRUITCAKE JUDGES who like to rule that an 87% ELECTION RETURN IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL!

And putting Toady Chappaquiddick Kennedy on trial for the murder of Mary Jo Koepeckne, while they are at it.

Border security starts with a purge of incumbents.

Posted by: richard mcenroe at June 23, 2007 11:32 AM
*************************

Maybe a nice coating tar and feathers would help them buggars slide out of office a little easier.

The solution to our current Illegal Immigration problem is clear. Build the already
approved border fence and enforce our borders and current laws.

Posted by: SNEHNESNE at June 23, 2007 2:35 PM
***************************

THAT isn't HALF the trouble we have. anymore.

OUR GOVERNMENT has ALLOWED AND FOSTERED the RECONQUISTAS, forgery of documentation and of American money and drug smuggling STRONGHOLDS in America that also have to be cleaned out.

It doesn't do any good to fix a broken dam if you leave ALL the flood waters inside the destroyed areas. That mess has to be pumped out and cleaned up and rebuilt.

Yes, it's just like New Orleans, and it covers at least 1/4 of Texas, half of California, and half of several states in between, plus a few Northern strongholds as well.

Check the voting maps - where you see BLUE is where you can KNOW the RECONQUISTAS have strongholds. ESPECIALLY in areas like California and Texas - NO AMERICAN DIMS can hold any part of Texas without their RECONQUISTA PARTNERS IN CRIME.

Proof - EVEN RINO KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON WON HER RE-ELECTION BID WITH OVER 70% OF THE VOTE.

It would probably take the jailing for Treason of the entire ACLU and half the Judges on the Federal benches to get the job done, besides 3/4 of the US Senators.

John Steele at June 23, 2007 11:48 AM

****************

ZERO CREDIBILITY would be SKY HIGH for the Senate right now.

They have a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go to come up so high in the world, at THIS point in their conduct.

They look more like they been excavating for that famous hole through the earth to CHINA, to me!

The only way to defeat this piece of crap legislation is to phone or Email your pro-amnesty senator with the reasons that you consider this senate bill to be a piece of crap. My senator, Mel Martinez of Florida is one of those senators who is actively pushing for passage. Yesterday I sent him a long Email that expressed my displeasure with his position on S. 1348:

Senator Martinez:

Thank you for your response to my Email message in which I expressed grave concerns with respect to the Senate’s immigration bill that you seem to whole-heartedly support. I must tell you that you have not alleviated my concerns at all. I believe that if the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (S. 1348) without very significant revision becomes law the country as we know it today will be doomed to second or third world status and our creative and energetic middle class will disappear.

If passed by the Congress I do not believe for one minute that President Bush will enforce the border provisions of S. 1348 in the remaining months of his presidency no matter what he says in public. President Bush, Senator Kennedy, Senator McCain and you have told the public that we need the amnesty provisions (pardon me - the normalization provisions) of the bill in order to get border security and enforcement. I consider this as blackmail in the guise of compromise. And you, Senator Martinez, fell for it hook, line and sinker. The sponsors of S. 1348 claim that if there is no bill illegal Mexican aliens will continue to cross the US/Mexican border. Why? There are immigration laws on the books right now that are not being enforced by the President. Are you Senators and President Bush saying that you won’t urge enforcement of or enforce these existing laws unless S. 1348 contains amnesty provisions? The public considers the border enforcement provisions of S. 1348 to be only process oriented rather than process oriented as well as results oriented. It is nice to propose building additional border fencing, hiring more border agents, employing radars and unmanned aircraft but these efforts are meaningless unless they result in the meaningful reduction of the 3000 illegal alien border crossings per day to a trickle from Mexico. The public does not trust this government - neither you federal representatives, the President nor Michael Chertoff - to reduce illegal immigration from Mexico unless the triggers for granting amnesty to the illegal aliens are pulled only when the border enforcement provisions of S. 1348 are effective in significantly reducing illegal border crossings. The current provisions of the bill are totally ineffective in doing this and you know it!

Furthermore, you claim that if there is no bill - “those already living here illegally would amount to de facto amnesty for those 12 million.” I say nonsense! The illegal immigrants currently here are and will continue to be illegal as long as you don’t grant them amnesty with this “Good Ship Amnesty” bill. Your bill, upon approval of the House and signature by the President, makes them as well as millions of future illegal immigrants legal immediately! Why would they bother to come out of the shadows and become documented after the bill becomes law? Do you expect gun-toting criminals to register their guns because gun laws require registration? The law-abiding illegal immigrants may register according to provisions of S. 1348 but the criminal elements among them certainly will not.

I am also against granting illegal aliens with Social Security benefits or any other federal welfare benefits until they become legal aliens or US citizens. S. 1348 should also have provisions that cut off federal funds to universities and colleges, state governments and local governments that grant illegal aliens with more welfare or educational benefits than citizens of those state and local governments receive.

Having said all this I must state that I am not in favor of deporting illegal aliens en mass. However, I am for deporting criminal aliens and gang members immediately. The vast majority of those opposed to this bill primarily want illegal immigration to stop! Is that so hard for you elite US Senators to comprehend? The other provisions of S. 1348 such as fines and going to the back of the line are OK with me as long as the provisions are strictly adhered to and strongly enforced. However, I find it difficult to believe that a federal bureaucracy that administers the current disastrous visa and passport programs will be able to effectively administer the new ‘Z’ or ‘Y’ visa programs outlined in S. 1348 in a timely manner. A government that finds it impossible to process passport applications in less than six weeks just has to be incompetent and shouldn’t take on these new visa program unless it is vastly improved in efficiency. Many of these passport applications are renewals or applications for children. They should be easy to process. Until the State Department can demonstrate that it can rapidly process normal passports and visa applications as well as show that it has the capability of handling the ‘Z’ and ‘Y’ visa programs, the amnesty portions of S 1348 should be held up. This is another ‘trigger’ that should be incorporated into your bill but we know that it won’t as Senator Reed will allow only a few amendments to come up for consideration on the Senate floor - and this would not be one of them.

I also wonder if the supporters of S. 1348 have considered the huge new federal bureaucracies and expenditures required to support the enforcement and normalization portions of this bill. These are estimated to be in the trillions of dollar range. It seems to me that when federal funds become tight the federal government will focus on the amnesty portions of the bill rather than on the enforcement provisions. This is especially true if a Democrat gains control of the White House in 2008, which is very likely. If you think that Senator Kennedy has any concerns about the border enforcement or the employer enforcement provisions of S. 1348 you are sadly mistaken. He’s playing you Republican senators for suckers, chumps and fools! He knows that the illegal aliens now in this country will vote overwhelmingly for his party when the are given the right to vote, and, indeed, many of these illegal aliens have already voted for Democrats in recent elections

Furthermore, I must tell you that the way S. 1348 was cobbled together by a few supposedly elite senators, in secret in a back room in the Senate building, and then introduced to the Senate last month, allowing little or no discussion or amendments, bypassing committee hearings, amendments, discussions, etc., was one of the most undemocratic and despicable displays of senatorial misconduct that I have ever witnessed. Now I understand that Senator Reed wants a cloture vote on S. 1348 before amendments are discussed and voted on. Any senator who falls for this crap is either a fool or dishonest. And I must say that you, Senator Martinez, were and continue to be in the thick of this dishonorable and disgusting process.

Some Further Thoughts for Your Consideration:

1. It has been reported recently (June 20, 2007) that China now produces more carbon dioxide emissions than the US (6,200 million metric tons versus 5,800 million metric tons), and US emissions have been going down whereas China’s emissions have been rocketing up. However, Democrats and their allies in the media and in environmental groups want to impose draconian restrictions on our carbon dioxide emissions and on our use of fossil fuels. People in the US, whether they be illegal aliens or not produce carbon dioxide through their use of fossil fuels for everyday living. If we continue to take in illegal aliens from Mexico our emission of carbon dioxide and demands for fossil fuels will go up substantially instead of down. Some people estimate that S. 1348 will explode our population by 40-50 million over the next decade. We cannot afford this additional carbon dioxide burden. Senate bill S. 1348 must not become law!

2. Senator Martinez, you claim that American workers will not do the jobs that the current group of illegal aliens will do. Again, this is total nonsense. If you pay Americans enough money they will do any job no matter how demanding in physical effort. In addition, when labor is too expensive or is not available creativity takes over and machines are invented that efficiently do the work of dozens of unskilled workers. There are hundreds of illustration of this with the invention of the cotton gin being just one of them. It is disingenuous of you to suggest that only migrant workers can pick lettuce and tomatoes, do landscaping work, work as nannies, make beds in hotels and wash dishes in restaurants. Millions of Americans and legal aliens currently do these jobs every day. To get more Americans and legal aliens to do these jobs we are willing to pay substantially more for products and services. In the long run we would be expending considerably less money than if S. 1348 were to become law. We can do without this illegal alien labor pool. Senate bill S. 1348 must be defeated and it will be defeated, with or without your help!

3. Senator Martinez, why is it that this Congress and this President are doing nothing to get Mexico to provide jobs for its exploding population? These illegal Mexican aliens in our country are primarily Mexico’s problem. Can’t you elite Congressmen come up with some plans to give aid to Mexican or American businessmen that can then employ these illegal Mexican aliens in their home country, cultivating or making needed products or providing needed services? Come on! Let’s do some creative thinking in that US Senate rather than coming up with crap legislation such as S. 1348.

4. Senator Martinez, I wonder if you are aware of the facts that the public’s approval rating of President Bush is at 29% and that the US Congress’ rating is at an all-time low of 14%. Furthermore, the public’s current approval rating of President Bush and the US Congress with respect to immigration are miserably at 9% and 3%, respectively! You, Senator Martinez, as well as your fellow Democrat and Republican senators who support S. 1348, are totally out of step with the American people on this immigration amnesty bill. You will continue to ignore the public’s will at you political peril. Unless you vote ‘No’ on cloture of S. 1348 my wife and I will not again make the mistake of voting for you. And we will support anyone who challenges you in you primary election.

I have more that I could say about this horrible immigration legislation but I doubt that you would ever read it.

Dr. Jose Sanchez

Are you listening, Congressional Republicans? Mitch McConnell should be the point man on this.

Posted by: Lightwave at June 23, 2007 11:22 AM

*********************

Seems more nacherl-like, Mitch looking so extremely tired and all, that he and a few of his dear Senator friends, like Trent Lott and John McCain, and Lindsey Graham, all need a QUICK ND EARLY RETIREMENT from the Senate, and all that "strenuous work" they been doin' lately - and they can take Arlen Spectre with them.

That would be much more better than making Mitch point man for anything except hunting for a skunk hole to crawl down into.

True enough Bayam. I have relatives who agree with me politically on nothing except immigration. We have millions of workers with absolutely no loyalty to the USA, who will never align with the USA against their home countries who feed parasitically off union labor's higher wages and the red tape of legal contracting and small business ownership, to work underground for unregistered cash. This Administration won't see that.

Ya know what? Trent Lott knows where Gulfport, Mississippi IS. And, he also doesn't want to return to it. Nor does he want, again, to be pushed out of a leadership chair.

Still, I think he goes down. Even if he's holding the pubic hairs of others in his hands; many of the 100 in the Senate are aware of the "shortfalls." Where, I'll also guess, NOT ONE SINGLE SENATOR MAKES IT TO THE WHITE HOUSE AS AN ENCUMBENT.

The senate, in many ways, is learning that the Internet has changed how Americans behave. And, that their old system, so dependent on the old media, isn't gonna keep them in business.

I think 2008 is just the tip of the iceberg for politicians. Because I think lots of angry Americans are looking to see change. including no work permits for the Ma & Pa Kettle Show.

One of the things with bills; now that I'm listening to the Reagan Diaries; is that Tip O'Neill played a game with about 30 GOP House members, back in 1987. So that Reagan's tax bill tanked.

In the diary entry what he wrote that day in March, was the he was sure the bill would be back, and on his desk for signing on April 15th. And, what the Bonkey's were gonna do ... was add PORK ... earmarks ... To the next bill up.

In other words? By saying "no" to Reagan; when the public wanted them to say "yes" ... They just played a game.

For all we know? This is the "game" Lott used in his pocket. It goes like this. "Let me have your vote now, and I'll marry ya, later."

As to this immigration bill? It's taken Dubya's American support down the toilet. And, even though I think Patraeus is doing well. And, our military continues to draw strength from public support; nobody trust the stinking bush. He's even worse than his father.

What will Bush do about this? Well, right now he's touting his fwend Tony Blair to head the "quartet." I guess that's the way elites always think? Just be friends with "power." And, you'll always be invited to the best parties.

While the mess? It's gonna be to the GOP to do the cleaning.

And, I actually think DeLay will be the one who comes roaring back in. Because Ronnie Earle has no case; and DeLay benefits by riding out the GOP storm, now.

You wanna believe Newt? His campaign slogan is "solutions."

DeLay says: IT's the government, stupid.

You haven't seen, yet, everything that's gonna be in play in 2008.

For all the candidates? What to do with Dubya? The man's not liked. He surrounded himself with idiots for staff. And, he's gonna take the fall on Libby. Because Comey is a Dubya "pick!" You just wait till the history books deal with this incompetent! Ya know why? Jimmy Carter gets better press!

The day will come. People will learn the Bush agenda. And, Riyadh? You want to call their billions a good bet? I don't think it's gonna materialize to a good bet.

And, I think Tony Balony Blair is all washed up, as well. So they'll point to Israel. (Where Israel actually has arabs living inside the country; citzenship bestowed and everything else. ) Now, why wouldn't they want to give this crap back? Of course, neither eygpt nor jordan are willing to show any interest.

But Dubya has a "dream." The Saud's paid him to dream like that, too.

Ah, and perhaps the Soddies will get a Ken Lay lesson up ahead? You know where "Kenny Boy" discovered Dubya wasn't gonna bail out Enron. Wasn't gonna send in the Saud's, who bailed out Arbusto, either.

As Paul O'Neill wrote; Dubya's loyalty is a one way street, where you're supposed to kiss his ring.

What'da guy.

No wonder there are so many confused, and un-led GOP kiesters, wandering around the halls of congress, shell-shocked.

The Ma & Pa Kettle Show? It ain't I Love Lucy. It'll fade to black.

One of the remarkable elements (and as yet unremarked by the punditry) of immigration reform is that the domestic issue that is receiving the highest priority and pushing from the White House and Senate does not benefit US citizens.

All that political power is being used to create a benefit for illegal aliens.

That is simply disgusting. I can think of any number of domestic issues which are in need of "reform" or simply some attention.

over 60% percent of the illegals in this country simply walked across the border. the reason bush, kennedy, kly et al are against a fence unless it is electronic(they don't work), is because fences work. they work everywhere in the world where they are put and maintained. this fence that i have posted repeatedly, and will continue to post, will grind walk in traffic to a halt. please stop throwing out the, "they will come no matter what if the jobs are here, they will come with taller ladders, they will tunnel, etc, etc". they will do no such thing. what they will start doing is getting on line to come here legally if they really want to come--which they don't.

this fence will put a halt to the 40 year tsunami that continues as we argue over the deck chairs on the titanic:

http://www.weneedafence.com/images/Fence_Idea.jpg

please stop the blather and build the fence. afterwards when the cheap labor disappears the market place will do its job and allocate capital etc according to the new supply and demand matrix. trust the process. meanwhile for the love of god stop the canard about "they do jobs we won't". we did and will continue to do every job when the supply and demand ratio is where it should be. for you learning impaired that means higher wages when cheap labor isn't falling through the imaginary border that bush enforces.

to all the senators especially the tone deaf like kly has become--just build the fence and shut the f'k up.........we don't need any of the other bullshit laws that will never be enforced if the fence is built. we have a trillion laws on the books already. but go ahead, pass your silly little laws but just build the fence so the problem will be solved. we'll let you think it was your "new" laws......

The obvious political advantage of a virtual fence is that it is virtually impossible to see it fail in public. We would have to depend on the very people who would be in trouble to inform us that the virtual fence has failed. Care to bet how long after the fact that would happen?

On the other hand, an old-style solid fence either works or fails under the full glow of publicity. Who wants that? Certainly not the people involved.

Posted by: Jose Sanchez at June 23, 2007 3:33 PM
****************

Excellent post. Very good.

I am very sorry i ever voted for the democrats. Now i don;t know whom to vote for. The forces behind this new anti-American immigration policy are the large corporations that suppoted the Republican Party. What am I to do? I will never vote for anyone who votes for this bill. If it passes or fails, doesn;t matter. I am from S.C. and lindsay grahamnesty has lost my support. The big businesses behind this bill should be fined until they stop hiring illegals. The and only then will the problem be fixed. I own a business and i can tell you that it is the unscroupolus businesses that support this bill. As Ameircans we should ask the peopl working for us about their employees. Do they speak english? if not, do they have a green card?? it is up to us to stop this mass invasion.

Anybody that states that border security has improved under Bush has to be living on another planet. Bush started building the fence that congress approved last year, a short time before the immigration bill came out. He abruptly had them stop the work(Who gave him permission to stop),on the fence right before the bill came to the senate floor. So he built 2 whole miles so far. For updates on the fence etc. go to Americanborderpatrol.com. The stepped up ICE enforcement recently(Just a drop in the bucket), has been another window dressing. Bush arrogantly thought he could get some good press on these subjects, and sneak this horrible immigration bill under the nose of the american public. The border should have been completely secured, and workplace enforcement should have been put in place, following 9/11. We need to know who is coming in this country illegally. This new bill Bush insists on promoting actually cuts the size of the fence in half. And this makes sense? Bush still doesn't intend to secure the border, even if this passes. I found it disgusting how he stated"(His friends were mad at him for building a fence). This referring to the 2 mile fence he built. These "friends" he's talking about are the rich business people who are behind this sham of a bill. This bill needs to be stopped at all costs. Then we need to insist that the border be secured, and current immigration laws are enforced. Then Bush would have an inkling of credibility on border security. And we don't need to legalize 12-20 million people just because corporate america wants it. Securing the border and enforcing meaningful workplace verification will take care of the illegal alien population. Atrittion through enforcement!

In software, something that is 'virtual' is something that looks like it is there, but isn't. We need a 'real' fenc e (or as the case may be, 2 fences with an access road between them). This isn't rocket science and the cost - a few billion dollars - we probably burn that in a month in Iraq.
Personally I would like to see them start with a security only bill with 3 components:
The fence.
Employer sanctions.
Tough to forge biometric documentation.

Ditto to MSgt Theresa, Doc Sanchez and Ian.
Spot on. Now will the Republicrats and Demublicans listen? it's seems apparent that they will not, at least some will not. Senator Hutchinson has said nope, Cornyn had the class to email me back saying if he thinks it's a sham he will vote against it. Lott, well as stated earlier,does not care what the people are saying. The other "needed" Senators for this bill have yet to reply to my emails.

This week will be a very interesting one. It will be the issue which becomes the political end to many a Senators careers. Fence riding is not going to fly Senators, if ya miss the vote, you said yes in the eyes of the public.

To the Senate I say: Get with the program, this issue is a cuts across party lines and the American public is pissed. I mean really P.O'd. We do not want a shamnasty bill. The public does not want to be sold out!
I personally will vote against any sitting Congressman and Senator whom votes for this bill. Do you understand Washington?Those who sell us out will themselves be tossed out.

Herkeng USAF (Ret)