Captain's Quarters -

I would be careful about taking the Taliban's word at face value on this. However, I also think that the constant negotiations that took place before the release probably indicate that some form of pay-off to the terrorists was made.

There is historical precedent for this -- we should not be overly surprised. It's like the war portrayed in the book "Jefferson's War". Even while we were fighting other European nations were paying "jizya" to the pirates, and supplying them with weapons.

Now on to another topic:
I love the new look, and the speed with which your site now loads Ed, great job on the upgrade. You used to have thousands of errors when you put your URL into the validation service (W3C), now you are at only 475, most of those are in widgets which are mostly impossible to kill since they import code from other spots a lot.

One other note on this -- Memri has a new post up with articles from Islamic scholars regarding taking of civilian hostages and how it is not permitted under sharia. If you read the whole thing you can see there is some "weasel room" in the statements for groups like the Taliban to operate in.

It's very hard to look at hostages and say, now is the time you must die for your country. It is pretty much impossible for their loved ones and family to reach that conclusion. It would be much nicer to simply start dropping bombs until they return all hostages unharmed, and give financial reimbursement for all the inconvenience they have caused.

But civilized nations do not do that.

Sometimes all available choices simply stink.

Question: do we have the capability to add something to currency so it can be physically tracked by satellite? Say, some kind of micro implant or radioactive spray?

I suspect we do have some capability to do this now. Therefore, if this is the case, how quickly do you hostage-taking would decline once the jihadis realize we can always follow the money and then administer "Uncle Sammy's Patented Hellfire Enema" to them?

Another idea: treat any money transferred the Taliban in such a way it will become useless to them after a certain period. Perhaps some kind of delayed dissolving agent might work?

Then again, we could always just pull a "Kill Bill" act on them by inserting a black mamba in the suitcase underneath the first row of bills.

I think money probably changed hands but it's hard to believe it was $20 Million. And I always wonder in these situations how that works anyway. Does someone do a cash drop? There's a bank account set up somewhere? And who gets to control that?

The Taliban doesn't have a sitting government somewhere with a central bank. So I always wonder exactly how the money gets paid. And whether a lot of it doesn't get siphoned off into someone's private bank account and not used to buy weapons or fund operations. And if you know how the money is being paid, maybe there's someway to reappropriate it after the hostages are released.

Rose is right in saying that it's too much to ask that these 23 innocents die for the sake of South Korea's national pride. SK's ransom payment was all that country could do. Does anyone seriously think SK could have done anything militarily to respond to the Taliban's aggression? Is there a SK equivalent to the Mossad, US Sepcial Forces, KGB, or PLA that could simply go in a tearing the place apart looking for the hostages? Like the Continental Europeans, SK has allowed itself to become a disarmed US protectorate that cannot defend itself or its people.

The Koreans are used to buying Democrats; why shouldn't they buy Taliban?

Is there a compelling reason for NGO's etc., to put themselves at risk by inserting themselves into a war theater? Their foolishness can affect strategic plans painstakingly put in place with unintended consequences.

They knew the risks going in. By their ill conceived intrusion they have given a propaganda victory to our enemies. Whatever the payoff, western lives will be lost for their 'naivete'.

A bit of Kipling, anyone?

Here is an interesting quote from Wikipedia detailing an early interaction between the Barbary Pirates and the new United States:

Thomas Jefferson, then the ambassador to France, and John Adams, then the ambassador to Britain, met in London with Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja, the ambassador to Britain from Tripoli. The Americans asked Adja why his government was hostile to American ships, even though there had been no provocation. The ambassador's response was reported to the Continental Congress:

That it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman [Muslim] who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise.

After paying danegeld to the Barbary Pirates for decades, we finally got the above message, and, in two wars, ended the Barbary Pirate scourge on American shipping.

I don't smell "korea" the way you smell "korea."

Over there, is a worthless (in terms of geography), hermit kingdom, butting out of China. Did we let the chinese worry about the cretins, who once flew over the mountains, and ensounced themselves in Peking, Beige-ing, or you go name that duck.

No. Truman wanted to weaking America; so he let the UN "guide him." And, he opened up all of MacArthur's (should'a been kept secret), military plans. Oh. And, then he fired MacArthur in 1951. Because he didn't want to face him, in the 1952 presidential election.

Truman, instead saw Ike taking the prize. So he ran home.

While in paris, the diplomats spent two years arguing the shape of the table, before korea ... became ... KOREA. Same place. But the land's divided into two. So you have despot "A" crapping over the Northern sector; and despot "B" ... a bit more advanced. So America doesn't see the shinanigans.

Anywway, we're at war. And, who are these Taliban hostages? Why none other than religious folk. Carrying around Bibles. So, they became fodder for the lunatic Taliban. Nobody hits them on their heads, and their mosques, with 500-pound bombs anymore.

ANd, Afghans have had such a good crop of poppy; they're store-housing their supplies for future years.

Afghan's always been the world's supplier of opium. (Even to the Chinese. Who hate seeing their people using this stuff.)

And, the roads we built? Take a look at how things progressed. Because the Taliban rule by fear. And, chop heads off. The "village-people" were so terrified, many hid their electronics in their backyards. Shoveling dirt on top. And, the men grew beards. And, went to pray. A lot. If they weren't at the mosques? They were beaten silly. Compliance. You could call it that. Or not.

Anyway, the Russians were the first to deal with this menace. Jimmy Carter was in the White House; and Z-Big-New was advising. You know, it was Carter who bought this idea, right?

We were going to fund the enemies of the russians, upping the ante the russians had to pay "to stay" in Afghanistan. ANd, we also supplied enough stinger missiles, there's still stinger missiles around, for these bastards to use against our planes.

Ah. And, then, in the 1990's, after russia fell. We went after the Taliban. And, in one clever way we did this, was to build super-giant roadways (think of our interstate), up and down all the mountains in what was previously just goat trails.

Oh, boy. A bonanza for the opium farmers. Because now they had real roads to ply, to bring their dope out to sell.

SOmetimes, now, when I hear we're bombing Tora Bora (again), I realize we are going after those roads. Putting pot holes in. Because when we get pot holes on American roads, that's a business for the mafia. But in Afghanistan? Those shit-shovelers have no idea how to build roads. Or schools. Or hospitals.

And, into this mess the koreans sent Bible thumpers. How nice. And, then, just like Sgrena did for Italy; the handsome ransom became a way of leaving money for those who kill American soldiers.

Phooey on them all.

OK so Carol is an idiot...

Anyway, I just wanted to note that hostage taking and extortion are a time honored practice in the Muslim world, going back to the glory days of the Barbary pirates.

I think it's great that Koreans at home are demonstrating great anger at the returning hostages, letting them know what fools they were for putting themselves in that situation.

It seems to me that countries like South Korea, France and Italy bear part of the responsibility for letting their citizens go to places like Afghanistan in the first place. Isn't there a place in the passport procedure where it can be stamped "denied" so that if Christian missionaries like these South Koreans persist in their foolhardiness, they have to go outside the laws of their country to get there? If they've broken laws to get to where they can be kidnapped, how can the parent country be held responsible for their safety and ransom?

It was also very annoying to me that the Koreans had the temerity to demand that the United States insert ourselves into their little dilemma to help extricate their idiot missionaries. What chutzpah.

Wow... I find I've been nodding agreement with everything NahnCee has said today on various threads.

I'd better go out for a hike or something. This place is obviously bad for me :-)

"The money will also address to some extent the financial difficulties we have had."

Financial difficulties? No, you don't say! What's the matter, is Bin Laden broke? Is your financial network destroyed? Are you having a cash flow problem? Are you running out of "guns and butter?" While all of the above is true, I think it's more like they are getting killed in large numbers and are close to total defeat and the Taliban "commanders' are just looking to cash out before they get out. 20 million dollars can buy a lot of hiding for a few "commanders" and their families.

Take your baton, back, Jason.

The Barbary Pirates were put out of business during our 4th President's second term. James Monroe finally ordered the assault.

Go sing "From the Halls of Montizuma to the Shores of Tripoli." History's repleat with American stories of courage and daring.

As to "what got caught" in the Taliban net; it just shows ya that battlefields and countries at war, sure attract a lot of stuff that our military gets to see as huge headaches.

And, like I said, you smell "korea" probabably through the bullshit lens of the way we teach kids things these days. I'm just not impressed.

get our communication network renewed

It's absolute hell when Cingular cuts of your cell service for failure to payment.

Seoul Doubt.

The principle is: You don't pay ransom, because it just encourages the kidnappers. That's the US policy.

NGO and missionary types should be told up front: "This is dangerous, barbaric country. You might get kidnapped. If you do, we will not ransom you. We probably will not be able to rescue you. You will probably be murdered. Sign here, absolving us of any and all responsibility for your welfare, and make your wills now, so your families know what to expect."

/Mr Lynn